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1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess

The short answer is yes, use em.
My 68 CL450 is the same setup using a felt ring as a seal. I forget where I got my in, Kibblewhite??? Anyway dimensionally you’re good.

As a safety check, once the new bushes are installed, the inner tube should be longer by some .005” - .010”
 
I got the CBX bushings for my '71 and they had the flange on them. I did not use the thrust bushing nor the felt as they cannot be installed since the flange of the CBX bushing takes up that space.
BushInsert.jpg
 
Got another question for the collective, is there any difference between the CB450 K3 and K4 headlight fork ears and the K5 other than the K5 is chrome? They look the same to me and it looks like good chrome ones are a hard find. Left K3/K4 part number 51606-319-000 and left K5 part number 51606-346-670.
 
In terms of fit between the clamps and over the tubes, everything past K4 is interchangeable. Earlier models have quite a variation in tube size at the top, they vary in size and the ears may not fit without mod.

In terms of finish, you’ll have to get a matched set. Or, repaint, repair…to work in your color scheme.

66Sprint, where you?
 
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Jays100 said:
In terms of fit between the clamps and over the tubes, everything past K4 is interchangeable. Earlier models have quite a variation in tube size at the top, they vary in size and the ears may not fit without mod.

In terms of finish, you’ll have to get a matched set. Or, repaint, repair…to work in your color scheme.

66Sprint, where you?
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Thank you for that info and that was what I thought from looking at the parts manual diagrams and photos on ebay but the only sure way to know is to have in your hand or ask a trusted source. I have one good one other than the chrome being very rough but if I can use the K4 that opens my options quite a bit.
 
FWIW, my K4 has the larger chrome fork ears, so this implies the original painted fork ears should also fit the K5. I also have the 7" headlight. The only problem I see is that the larger 7" headlight that went with the K5 fork ears may not fit with the smaller K4 ears.
 
I had one good but rusty K5 right fork arm and I found a K5 left one on ebay with about the same amount of patina so I ordered it. They will either clean up good enough or I will paint them. The vendor also had a set of good trim rings so ordered those as well. Thanks for the feedback, it is appreciated.
 
Back to the grey and cold and a chance for freezing rain after a few very nice days in the 60's where I was able to get the frame primed and started spraying some gloss black Rust-Oleum engine enamel but needs a couple more coats. Will have to wait for warmer temps to get the rest painted. My next big project needs to be get organized which I can get done in the colder temps if I can stay motivated. With my limited storage space I have new parts, old parts needed for the build that need cleaning and restoration and old parts that should not be needed intermixed on shelf's and in boxes. We'll see how that works out,

Has anyone used Blaster Metal Rescue for rust removal? I found the 14oz bottles (add water to make 1 gallon) in a local overstock store for $2,99 each so couldn't resist at that price. They appear to be several years old but according to Blasters web site they will stay good in a sealed container. If anyone has an Ollie's store in their area might be worth checking out.
IMG_4837.JPG

Lastly here is a photo I took last night that i just found interesting.

IMG_4839.JPG
 
I never knew Blaster sold a version. Closest Ollie's to us is over 30 miles away, but if I'm ever at that Harbor Freight store very near it again in Crystal River I'll try to remember to look. Let us know how it works.
 
I will update on how it works out. Regretfully with Ollie's you never know if a product is a one time deal or they may stock it awhile. I went ahead and bought 8 containers of so I can do my tank and a number of pieces.
 
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I used Metal Rescue some years ago and it worked. It wasn't a sudden process, took a while, but finally the metal was a lot cleaner. And the stuff apparently isn't poison and can be disposed of easily, down the toilet, when it's no longer working. You were right to buy several bottles, because I remember paying a lot more. Right now at Home Depot it's $31.50 a gallon!
 
RobMan said:
Back to the grey and cold and a chance for freezing rain after a few very nice days in the 60's where I was able to get the frame primed and started spraying some gloss black Rust-Oleum engine enamel but needs a couple more coats. Will have to wait for warmer temps to get the rest painted. My next big project needs to be get organized which I can get done in the colder temps if I can stay motivated. With my limited storage space I have new parts, old parts needed for the build that need cleaning and restoration and old parts that should not be needed intermixed on shelf's and in boxes. We'll see how that works out,

Has anyone used Blaster Metal Rescue for rust removal? I found the 14oz bottles (add water to make 1 gallon) in a local overstock store for $2,99 each so couldn't resist at that price. They appear to be several years old but according to Blasters web site they will stay good in a sealed container. If anyone has an Ollie's store in their area might be worth checking out.
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Great price. Mixed a little on the strong side and used fairly soon, it should work pretty good. I had tried it on a tank that was pretty bad but also full of a varnish sludge that needed removed, so it wasn't a fair test of Metal Rescue. The other contaminants needed various attacks with toilet bowl cleaner, pea gravel, detergent and even fuel itself first. That's even cheaper than Rust911.
RobMan said:
Lastly here is a photo I took last night that i just found interesting.
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Looking at those conspiracy trails, in the sky, does give me a weird feeling.
 
To get out the old varnish and other similar deposits of rotten fuel, try a tankful of E85 fuel, which is mostly ethanol. Be sure to get the petcock off first because it will probably damage the seals there. If you Google E85 near me you can find a source. You just fill the tank, shake it occasionally, and wait a day or so, then dump it out.
 
wentwest said:
To get out the old varnish and other similar deposits of rotten fuel, try a tankful of E85 fuel, which is mostly ethanol. Be sure to get the petcock off first because it will probably damage the seals there. If you Google E85 near me you can find a source. You just fill the tank, shake it occasionally, and wait a day or so, then dump it out.
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Yes. Even carb bodies in a covered pot full. Ultrasonic waves will pass through a glass bowl or jar full set down in the water bath. That gooey, tarlike stuff is pretty stubborn to most cleaners.
 
Another random brain synapses firing had me looking at the gauges and if they were functional or at least salvageable. I have the set that came off the bike (72 K5) and I also have a set that came with the donor engine (71 K4) in a mixed bag of extra stuff) but after some research it appears they are from a later model, off a 73 or 74 and have the angled cable connection so are not really interchangeable. The tachometer off the K5 appears to be functional and when spun with my 1400 RPM drill reads 2500 RPM and the other tachometer also appears to be functional but reads about 6000 RM when spun with the drill so not sure if one or both are off. If anyone has thoughts on this I would appreciate.


Neither speedometer works when spun up and the K5 one has obvious damage internally where the cable connection is loose. I disassembled it and found the damage in the photo. The bike had took a pretty hard spill on the left side with the handle bars and crash bar both bent pretty badly bent, so I think this damage to the speedometer happened at the same time with the cable probably jerking the cable connection from the bracket. I am not sure if this is something others have seen and if it would be repairable. Again any thoughts on this is appreciated as well as any suggestions on anyone who repairs these gauges before I did deeper and do more damage. NOS gauges are available but very expensive and while there are a number of used gauges available I would assume they would require refurbishment as well. Thanks

IMG_4840[1].JPG
 
If I remember right that's a press fit. Maybe (maybe?) you could secure it with solder or JBWeld? The alignment of the spinning drum with the core piece is crucial. To me this is one of those situations where you either fix it or permanently destroy it with your efforts, but bear in mind it's already broken so there's no reason not to try. And you can get lucky and someone will tell you a way to repair it that's better than my hack attempts.
 
I used this guy in Georgia to clean and rebuild my CL77 speedo and he seems to have done a good job, yet a display only bike so I have never tested it. :)

He did refabricate some worn out bushings though and seems to know what he was talking about when I discussed the rebuild with him. You could always call him and discuss and send him some pics. His name is Joel.

joellevinecompany.com

Speedometer & Tachometer Repair - Joel Levine Company, Inc.

All British, European, American and Japanese gauges can be remanufactured to as new with a one year warranty. If needed any gauge can be supplied with a new dial face, chrome bezel-ring, number drums etc. so it meets the costumers requirements
joellevinecompany.com
 
wentwest said:
If I remember right that's a press fit. Maybe (maybe?) you could secure it with solder or JBWeld? The alignment of the spinning drum with the core piece is crucial. To me this is one of those situations where you either fix it or permanently destroy it with your efforts, but bear in mind it's already broken so there's no reason not to try. And you can get lucky and someone will tell you a way to repair it that's better than my hack attempts.
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Yes it does look like a press fit with the inside edge of the cable connection housing flared a bit to lock it in place. As you say I really don't have a lot to lose with giving it a shot. :)
 
Flyin900 said:
I used this guy in Georgia to clean and rebuild my CL77 speedo and he seems to have done a good job, yet a display only bike so I have never tested it. :)

He did refabricate some worn out bushings though and seems to know what he was talking about when I discussed the rebuild with him. You could always call him and discuss and send him some pics. His name is Joel.

joellevinecompany.com

Speedometer & Tachometer Repair - Joel Levine Company, Inc.

All British, European, American and Japanese gauges can be remanufactured to as new with a one year warranty. If needed any gauge can be supplied with a new dial face, chrome bezel-ring, number drums etc. so it meets the costumers requirements
joellevinecompany.com
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Thanks, I just looked at his web page and it looks like he has a picture of my gauges posted so perhaps that's a sign. I am really no where close to needing them yet but just trying to get as many ducks moving in the same direction as possible. :)
 
It still maybe worth having a conversation, as you need a specialized service that will at least let you know what your dealing with service and cost wise. I have refaced and rebuilt many gauges in my past work and the smaller ones are the most difficult to get right in my experience. I wasn’t willing to take a chance on the CL77 speedometer as they are as scarce as hens teeth. Hence a professional was in order in my books.
 
Flyin900 said:
It still maybe worth having a conversation, as you need a specialized service that will at least let you know what your dealing with service and cost wise.
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Yes I am planning on sending him an email to get an estimate of the feasibility of the repair and what what it might cost. The gauges only need to work properly and be presentable. Thanks again for the suggestion.
 
Question, is there a source for replacement speedometer/tachometer light sockets? The rubber boots on the sockets are so old and dry rotted they are falling apart. I am sure this is a common problem so don't want to re-invent the wheel.

IMG_4859.JPG
 
Updates on some progress. I disassembled the damaged K5 speedometer and there appeared to be too much damage for me to repair so I took another look at the other set of gauges (K6) and after sorting through the parts realized I have all the major parts need to use them provided they can be made to function properly.

IMG_4845.jpg


The speedometer had already been partially disassemble and the rubber gasket where the inner and outer cups join had been stolen but I had the one from the other speedo so cleaned the mechanism and lubricated with Liquid Bearings lubricant. Originally the speedometer wouldn't function and the needle was stuck but after clean and lube appears to be working properly after reassembly. I also painted the cups and cleaned the lens but decided not to replace the dial faces.

Speedo.MOV

drive.google.com drive.google.com

I repeated process on the tach, disassemble, clean, lube, paint the outer cup and reassemble and where the tach would only read 6000 RPM on the bench test now reads a bit higher.

Tach.MOV

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Ordered 4 new bulb sockets from Sparck Moto along with new LED bubs. I also ordered new cushions from 4into1 rather than try to use some sort of substitute such as weather strip which would have cost nearly as much for a roll.

In other news I have refurbished the headlight and taillight with new parts from 4into1 and have finished painting the frame, swing arm and center stand.

A pic of the frame not perfect heck of a lot better than it was.


IMG_4848.JPG


Hoping to make better progress now the weather is starting to warm up.
 
Question for @ancientdad or others that know. I believe you had mentioned that the chain guard from the CB450 K6 and K7 will fit the earlier models provided you use the rubber bushing and a lock washer and nut. Looks like it would be a fit just wanted to make sure before ordering one. Mine is broken so I will try to weld it and see how it goes first. Thanks.
 
RobMan said:
Question for @ancientdad or others that know. I believe you had mentioned that the chain guard from the CB450 K6 and K7 will fit the earlier models provided you use the rubber bushing and a lock washer and nut. Looks like it would be a fit just wanted to make sure before ordering one. Mine is broken so I will try to weld it and see how it goes first. Thanks.
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It will fit, though you might have to tweak the alignment angle a bit (but mine may have required it because of the stacked brackets I had him weld on for added strength). The swingarms are the same, and I had to go back to an earlier CL to find the old version picture without the grommet and spacer, they updated all the CB models back to K3 with the later version which it didn't actually have until at least K5. The main difference is the hole in the rear chain guard tab is open on the later version so the bolt will pass through, and the early version had the nut welded to the back of the tab (even though the picture doesn't seem to show the hole being open, still looks like threads in it).

early
honda-cl450-scrambler-1969-k2-usa-chain-caseswingarm_bighu0101f3316_5e22.gif


late
honda-cb450k6-usa-f-18-rear-fork-drive-chain-case_big3IMG01171616_d0af.gif
 
I took a shot at welding the broken chain guard with my cheap Harbor Freight Flux Core welder. Upon closer inspection of the broken area I could see where a PO had tried to weld it, probably on the bike. Considering I learned to arc weld back in the 9th grade FFA (Future Farmers of America) class and have only welded a handful of things in the last few years I don't think it turned out to bad. When I tap it there is a solid sound so going with it. It will probably last longer then I will. :LOL:

IMG_4864[1].JPGIMG_4865[1].JPGIMG_4866[1].JPG
 
It's probably solid enough, and mine had been welded too when I got the bike and it seemed solid as well, but in the 3700 miles or so I've put on the bike it eventually cracked again which is why I changed the mount to the grommet and spacer style.
 
Use O rings on the inside of the swing arm that fit over the 6 mm bolt to cushion the vibration on the rear tab and possibly the front inside tab too. It will minimize the high frequency vibration into the frame those motors/bikes have that can be hand and feet numbing.
 
Flyin900 said:
Use O rings on the inside of the swing arm that fit over the 6 mm bolt to cushion the vibration on the rear tab and possibly the front inside tab too. It will minimize the high frequency vibration into the frame those motors/bikes have that can be hand and feet numbing.
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What would make your idea work better would be to run a slightly longer bolt through so it protrudes through the welded nut on the back of the tab, then double-nut it before it's completely tight so it would allow the o-rings to have some flexibility but still not come loose later.
 
Received the new instrument light sockets and LED bulbs from Sparck Moto the other day and and compared them to the old ones and tried to put them in the gauges but seemed a bit too big to go in the hole so trimmed them a bit to fit.

IMG_4870.JPG

IMG_4871.JPG

The new sockets fit nice and snug after taking a razor to them.

After getting everything assembled I kinda wish I had got new decals for the gauge faces now. I wasn't the cost, I just didn't want to dissemble them more than I had to. I have messed stuff up in the past by going for perfection rather leaving well enough alone.

IMG_4872.JPG
 
While working on the this gauge set I ran across an oddity and wonder if anyone has seen this before. The parts manual for the K-3 thru K-7 shows this collar used on both mounting posts on the speedo and tach but the gauge set I have had a welded/soldered flat washer halfway down one of the posts on each gauge. I ended up popping the washers and solder off and used the collars from the other gauges and is working but I hate a mystery so if anyone has seen this let me know.

Speedo IPB.JPGIMG_4869.JPG
 
RobMan said:
While working on the this gauge set I ran across an oddity and wonder if anyone has seen this before. The parts manual for the K-3 thru K-7 shows this collar used on both mounting posts on the speedo and tach but the gauge set I have had a welded/soldered flat washer halfway down one of the posts on each gauge. I ended up popping the washers and solder off and used the collars from the other gauges and is working but I hate a mystery so if anyone has seen this let me know.
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That looks like somebody's bodge to me, probably done in lieu of the proper collar/sleeve spacer. The idea was like a shouldered bolt so it would tighten up to slightly compress the grommet while still allowing some cushion and movement for vibration purposes, of course.

I'd forgotten what your gauge faces looked like, ugh. For the want of a couple of screws that hold the face to the gauge, plus slipping the needle off the shaft... if it were mince I'd go back in to put new faces on them, the rest of the bike will be sooo much nicer and that will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.
 
Decided not to mess with the gauges for the time being. After I get the bike together and confirm the gauges work properly I may circle back and replace the faces as they will literally be staring me in the face. Painted a few more parts over the last few days and sorted out the assorted nuts, bolt and washers I purchased a while back and bagged and labeled them to which page they go to in the parts manual.

I have to say I am a bit annoyed/disappointed with a couple of the new parts I ordered from reputable vendors recently. Ordered a replacement swing arm bolt lock nut and washer set from vintagecb750.com as the old nut was messed up in the threaded area but the bolt appeared to be OK after dressing the the first thread a bit. Received the new nut and ended it wouldn't start so ordered a thread chasing tool and after I cleaned up the threads on the bolt the new nut started just fine but never locked, I was able to thread it all the way down with my fingers. Drat, figured I had messed up the bolt with the thread chaser and considered just lock tight but decided that dog wasn't going to hunt. Ordered a used replacement bolt, nut and washer from BobCo for about $20 after shipping, and tax. Got the replacement bolt in and it looked good so took the nut that came with it off and tried the shiny new nut and it ran down all the way with my fingers. What the ****. Thankfully the nut that came with the replacement bolt appears to be in good shape so will use that.

The other part that proved less than satisfactory is a reproduction taillight lens from 4into1. I have had it a while but decided to mount the taillight assembly which I had painted a few weeks ago to to the rear fender just to consolidate some parts. Last thing was to put the new lens on but, you guessed it, wouldn't fit. I have the old lens and other than being old and tired looking and having a side reflector missing is in good shape. It fits fine and if you compare to the new lens looks the same but the new lens is molded just a bit off and will not fit. I will reach out to 4into1 and see what my options are. They have a genuine Honda lens for about $50 which is just too darn expensive in my mind.

Anyway thanks for listening to my grumbling. :giggle:
 
RobMan said:
The other part that proved less than satisfactory is a reproduction taillight lens from 4into1.
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Sorry to hear it. That's one thing I've never ordered from them but it really doesn't surprise me since so much of this stuff is from China. The first replacement taillight assembly I bought that was the small type for SL100/175/350K1 looked cheesy when I got it but I went ahead and used it. It literally fell apart in the first month of riding, spot welds came loose and the lens and screws fell off while I was on a side road not far from me. Realized it when I got home and went back and found it, but ended up ordering a used original SL100 taillight assembly from eBay instead and of course, it's just fine 7 years later. You just have to pick and choose based on appearance and price, too cheap means there's a reason (like, it's crap).
 
ancientdad said:
The first replacement taillight assembly I bought that was the small type for SL100/175/350K1 looked cheesy when I got it but I went ahead and used it. It literally fell apart in the first month of riding, spot welds came loose and the lens and screws fell off while I was on a side road not far from me.
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Thanks for the info on the taillight assembly. I had considered buying a whole replacement assembly which is only $30 from 4into1 but I wanted to keep it as original as possible so jut ordered the lens. Glad I didn't spring for the whole thing now. Saw that DSS has the OEM Honda lens for $35 which is a bit better. I will have to see if there is anything else I need from them to make the most out of shipping.
 
Sometimes with plastic parts you can remold them a bit if you get them hot. Not really hot, but hot. Maybe put it in a pot of water, start heating the water and test the piece as the water gets hotter.
 
wentwest said:
Sometimes with plastic parts you can remold them a bit if you get them hot. Not really hot, but hot. Maybe put it in a pot of water, start heating the water and test the piece as the water gets hotter.
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I reached out to 4into1 about a refund but depending on what their terms are and if I keep the lens I may give that a try.
 
Miscellaneous mental wanderings and synaptic misfires:

Update on the Blaster Metal Rescue rust remover concentrate I bought from a close out store. Put some really rusty parts in a bucket with 2 gallons of mix and if you are patient it does a good job of clean up. It seems to work about as well as Evaporust but does not seem to stop flash rust as well. The directions say just wipe off and that they make another product to stop flash rust.

Had to order another thread chaser for the 12MM engine mount bolt/stud that holds the foot pegs on. Lubed with WD-40 and ran one of the old nuts back down on the threads to just clean the crud out and manged to mess one side up. Ordered thread chaser M12X1.25 and hopefully will clean up or if not have to order a replacement bolt off ebay.

Other Honda fun yesterday, wife going to a dental appointment (always leaves with only minutes to spare) and no start on her 2020 CRV. Obviously battery so told her to jump in my Ridgeline and took her to her appointment. While waiting looked up battery prices and Autozone and Advance Auto around $250 for the 4 year AGM battery but Walmart $179 so picked up a battery from Walmart on the way home. Mom started fixing dinner and I looked over the battery replacement and shouldn't take long as is easy access. Only tools required is 1/4 drive ratchet, short extension and deep well 10MM socket. Got the old battery out, put new battery in, hooked up cables and started the car no issues other than all the computer warnings about power loss. Went back to install the battery hold down bracket and while tightening the last nut (isn't it always the last nut or bolt) the socket and extension came off the ratchet and clunk clang thunk down in the engine bay and sounded like the last hit was on plastic. Oh Bother! Figured it landed on the plastic air dam under the engine but about 2 hours later found it in the small front fender cavity in front of the driver side wheel well liner. So cluttered in the engine bay no idea how it manage to slip in there. Who says God doesn't have a sense of humor.

After that fun decided to hold off trying to do any work on the bike, Hopefully make some progress there this afternoon.
 
RobMan said:
Ordered a replacement swing arm bolt lock nut and washer set from vintagecb750.com as the old nut was messed up in the threaded area but the bolt appeared to be OK after dressing the the first thread a bit. Received the new nut and ended it wouldn't start so ordered a thread chasing tool and after I cleaned up the threads on the bolt the new nut started just fine but never locked, I was able to thread it all the way down with my fingers.
Click to expand...
Update on vintagecb750.com, I reached out to them letting them know there was an issue with the lock nut and just got an email that they refunded my purchase price. Much appreciated!

As for the tail light lens from 4into1 they wanted the lens returned and then will refund, After paying return postage not much left of the purchase price but better than nothing.
 
If your tail light lens is looking a bit tired you could always put it on a buffing wheel to shine it up. I did that on mine and it came out nice. Don't stay in one place too long or apply too much pressure or you will melt the plastic.
 
boddy said:
If your tail light lens is looking a bit tired you could always put it on a buffing wheel to shine it up. I did that on mine and it came out nice. Don't stay in one place too long or apply too much pressure or you will melt the plastic.
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Yes, I've buffed out light scratches on mine that way but gentle is the key word for sure.
 
Another option.
code: VHT10OFF

scramblercycle.com

Honda 12v Brake Tail Light Assembly CB750 CB500 CB/CL350 CB/CL450 CB175 CL175

Honda 12v Brake Tail Light Assembly CB750 CB500 CB/CL350 CB/CL450 CB175 CL175 Reproduction part. 12 volt bulb included. There was a few different versions for some of these models over the years so check out the pics and your bike before ordering. Approximately 5" wide x 3.5" tall x 2.6"...
scramblercycle.com
 
^^^Are the pictures deceiving, or are the sides of that assembly "tapered"? The original from that era had vertical sides, basically a rectangle with a half circle on the bottom.
 
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