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1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess

Man! $149 used, up to $895 for NOS is ridiculous! I too have read the CMC claim that the one they offer is made from a higher quality alloy and doesn’t even need the D washers. That’s great if it is true.
I have an original one I would let go of at a reasonable price. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.
IMG_6492.jpeg
 
Question though, did you use the "D" washers on the new one from CMC? I was reading they are very important on the stock bridge but CMC dose not supply them with the hardware so wondering if they are not needed.
I used the “D” washers since I had ordered them months prior. Didn’t want to feel like I wasted money on them. The little bit of extra security felt good too.

According to CMC’s video on their “triple trees”.

“D-washers were supplied by Honda to prevent triple trees from cracking due to being overtightened. Our triple trees have been beefed up where the common crack points were”
 
Dime city also sells a billet design that changes the pinch point to an area with a bit more “meat” to it - definitely not a factory look though, much more modern.
 
Dime city also sells a billet design that changes the pinch point to an area with a bit more “meat” to it - definitely not a factory look though, much more modern.
IIRC that one is totally flat, obvious billet item.

Wow, they're proud of it too, $180 on sale

 
IIRC that one is totally flat, obvious billet item.

Wow, they're proud of it too, $180 on sale

Yeah. It’s very obviously not a factory part. They have this one as well:

 
Yeah. It’s very obviously not a factory part. They have this one as well:

I didn't see that one, but it's not much different. Obviously for those who use clip-ons
 
Question though, did you use the "D" washers on the new one from CMC? I was reading they are very important on the stock bridge but CMC dose not supply them with the hardware so wondering if they are not needed.
The D washers are only needed on the original uppers. I've bought 3 of the CMC uppers, installed 2 already. No complaints. The metalurgy in the originals was not good and even with the D washers there was fatigue cracking.
 
The early CB350 Fours suffered the same fate too. My 1972 one was intact though and I can’t recall the D washers on there. I need to check for them to see if they are present or show on the parts fiche.
 
The early CB350 Fours suffered the same fate too. My 1972 one was intact though and I can’t recall the D washers on there. I need to check for them to see if they are present or show on the parts fiche.
They are a little tricky to find. This is possibly the only supplier.

Part # 53235-300-000

 
So my 1972 CB350F doesn't have the D washers and the parts fiche doesn't show any used there. I likely used a torque wrench on those clamp bolts. Since it is not cracked and there are no issues presently. I will leave well enough alone.
The issues reported on the other SOHC forum from broken clamps are probably from a overzealous owner with too much force on the top bolt.
 
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I am no metallurgist by any stretch but in my opinion the aluminum used for the upper brace on my 450 K5 at least is very brittle and of poor quality. It was not broken when I started to remove it but after loosening the fasteners, I tapped around it with a plastic mallet to loosen it I heard it break at that point. The key word here is tap and looking at the image to can see where the metal is discolored which would be a casting imperfection I believe and that was the weak point. If you look at the rest of the material at the break you can see it is very grainy as well which to me says cheap pot metal. I think the D washers were an attempt by Honda to correct a poorly manufactured part and for the most part it has worked although you can tell there have been a lot of failures over the years by the lack of available spares.

IMG_4770.jpg
 
Yeah. QC on cast metals was not a strong suit of any manufacturer in the 60’s and 70’s, part of why so many machines from that time were oversized, forged, or crazy expensive.

I’ve got a spare triple I keep meaning to strip down and inspect. It looks like it was dragged down a dirt road so I’m not holding out a lot of hope for it.
 
I am no metallurgist by any stretch but in my opinion the aluminum used for the upper brace on my 450 K5 at least is very brittle and of poor quality.
I think you nailed it on this post Rob.
I have 2 broke outright, in different spots and a 3rd with a crack. I've bought 3 CMC repops, all for 72-73 350's, and would do it again.
I've heard of guys tig welding them but it's a roll of the dice it won't crack elsewhere and still not cheap.

On the upside, the uppers aren't near as stressed as the cast steel lower triple, so a failure is not usually catastrophic and immediately dangerous. If I had one that looked good, I'd just keep an eye on it.
 
Just throwing it out there that Common Motor has the upper fork bridge on sale for $75.00 or about 1/2 price. I am having to post on my phone so no link. Bunch of other stuff as well.

AD edit - here's the link: https://www.common-motor.com/honda-cb450-cl450-upper-triple-tree
That is a good price, and suddenly their modern rec/reg unit is on sale too... hmmm
 
Have not accomplished much lately but found a bit of my missing motivation and finished dissembling the frame today removing the rear fender, chain guard (broken at the rear mount) center stand and rear brake pedal assembly and rear swing arm. Going to start cleanup and rust removal on the frame. Hopefully my motivation will come home after the holidays and I can start making better progress. :rolleyes:
 
Have not accomplished much lately but found a bit of my missing motivation and finished dissembling the frame today removing the rear fender, chain guard (broken at the rear mount) center stand and rear brake pedal assembly and rear swing arm. Going to start cleanup and rust removal on the frame. Hopefully my motivation will come home after the holidays and I can start making better progress. :rolleyes:
Your chain guard should be the later version with a grommet and bolt with sleeve, so I'm surprised to hear it's broken. Did it break in the usual spot down low on the rear mount near the bolt hole?
 
Yes it did break just above the bolt hole. I will have to see if I can find some one to weld it. My welding skills would only lead to more to more damage on thin metal like that.
 
Yes it did break just above the bolt hole. I will have to see if I can find some one to weld it. My welding skills would only lead to more to more damage on thin metal like that.
I used the equivalent piece of support tab cut from the free chain guard MrPepper sent me and had a local guy weld it on top of my original, then used a grommet and shouldered bolt.
 
Had a beautiful day here and found a bit of motivation so took the frame, swing arm and center stand behind the house for a scrub with some de-greaser and then a good rinse with the pressure washer. Cleaned up pretty good but going to need quite a bit of sanding before ready for prime and paint. Tomorrow is supposed a bit cooler but sunny so going to take the S90 out for New Years ride and then try to get a bit more done on the 450. Happy New Years everyone!
 
Not much to report. Cold weather and cold garage dampens my motivation but have done more off and on sanding and wire brushing on the frame working on rust and areas where the paint is messed up. Intended to get some work done today but found the well pump, pressure relief valve leaking so that tied up my afternoon. Also replaced the pressure gauge while I was at it, reading 10 PSI too high. Pays to shop around, stopped by Lowes and would have cost about $50.00 for valve and gauge but noticed it had a 3/4 inch threaded nipple and I needed 1/2 inch. Drove a little further to the plumbing supply store and walked out with the correct parts for under $15.00 including tax. Humm mark up much.
 
With the cold weather I have been spending time reviewing the parts catalog and looking up parts, I need or want for my 72 450K5. One thing I do need is a rear fender and am wondering what is the difference between the K1-4 part number 80100-292-671XW and the K5 part number 80100-346-670XW or are they interchangeable? I have compared the images of the two different parts on CMSNL and they look the same to me as far as I can tell. Thanks.
 
With the cold weather I have been spending time reviewing the parts catalog and looking up parts, I need or want for my 72 450K5. One thing I do need is a rear fender and am wondering what is the difference between the K1-4 part number 80100-292-671XW and the K5 part number 80100-346-670XW or are they interchangeable? I have compared the images of the two different parts on CMSNL and they look the same to me as far as I can tell. Thanks.

I think the width or the mounting points are different? The seat pans are different part numbers as well. Found that out the hard way.
 
With the cold weather I have been spending time reviewing the parts catalog and looking up parts, I need or want for my 72 450K5. One thing I do need is a rear fender and am wondering what is the difference between the K1-4 part number 80100-292-671XW and the K5 part number 80100-346-670XW or are they interchangeable? I have compared the images of the two different parts on CMSNL and they look the same to me as far as I can tell. Thanks.
I can't say for sure, but generally if the part number is different, particularly the middle number, it usually is different in some way. Whether or not it would keep you from using it would remain to be seen. You could compare pics of the frames to see if the mounting is the same at both ends of it, but there's also the possibility that CMSNL or Partzilla uses the same or wrong picture for one of them when comparing parts fiches. That's happened a few times to me so they can't always be trusted.
 
I wish there was some easy to see identifier, so many of the ebay sellers listings are a bit suspect on how accurate they are. Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that it might have to do with the seat being different on the K5.
 
I wish there was some easy to see identifier, so many of the ebay sellers listings are a bit suspect on how accurate they are. Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that it might have to do with the seat being different on the K5.
Well, the K1-K4 frames have either studs or bolt holes (pretty sure studs) for the seat hinge to bolt onto on the flat bracket above the rear fender at the back of the frame (more or less in between the shocks), but on the side hinge K5 the studs aren't there and there are two hinge pivot points on the left side frame rail above the left sidecover and near the left rear shock. All of them use the big shouldered bolt in the sides of the fender, I think the K6/K7 turn signals mount on the grab rail but pretty sure the K5 signals mount on the shouldered bolt.
 
I wish there was some easy to see identifier, so many of the ebay sellers listings are a bit suspect on how accurate they are. Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that it might have to do with the seat being different on the K5.
According to my fiche cross reference. Here is what I get for your second number. (1) Here is your first number (2) listing for the fenders. (correction) ;)

So like AD notes maybe the difference is the rear mounting hinge vs a side mounting hinge???

(1) Part # = 80100-457-670XW
Part Description = FENDER, REAR *MRCR2* - (replaces 80100-346-670XW)
Model Count = 5
CB450-K5 1972 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K6 1973 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K7 1974 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CL450-K5 1972 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
CL450-K6 1974 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport


(2) Part # = 80100-292-671XW
Part Description = FENDER, REAR *MRCR2*
Model Count = 7
CB450-K1 1968 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K3 1970 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K4 1971 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CL450 1967 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
CL450-K2 1969 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
CL450-K3 1970 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
CL450-K4 1971 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
 
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According to my fiche cross reference. Here is what I get for your second number. (1) Here is your first number (2) listing for the seats.

So like AD notes maybe the difference is the rear mounting hinge vs a side mounting hinge???

(1) Part # = 80100-457-670XW
Part Description = FENDER, REAR *MRCR2* - (replaces 80100-346-670XW)
Model Count = 5
CB450-K5 1972 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K6 1973 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CB450-K7 1974 450 Super Sport 450 Street
CL450-K5 1972 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
CL450-K6 1974 450 Scrambler 450 Dual Sport
So if I understand correctly part number 80100-346-670XW was superseded by 80100-457-670XW which should work for any K5, K6 or K7 CB/CL 450 according to the cross reference? That is cool as it gives me a bigger search group. Thank you.
 
So if I understand correctly part number 80100-346-670XW was superseded by 80100-457-670XW which should work for any K5, K6 or K7 CB/CL 450 according to the cross reference? That is cool as it gives me a bigger search group. Thank you.
You may consider ordering from Texavina. I have never personally ordered from them, but have read good things. Not sure how you could get the Honda logo on the back, maybe a request could be sent.

Looks as if they are on sale as well. The descriptions also show dimensions and measurements to compare with other years.

CB450 K5-K7


CB450 K1-K4

 
You may consider ordering from
. I have never personally ordered from them, but have read good things. Not sure how you could get the Honda logo on the back, maybe a request could be sent.

Looks as if they are on sale as well. The descriptions also show dimensions and measurements to compare with other years.

CB450 K5-K7


CB450 K1-K4

I was actually asking about the rear fender and seats came into the conversation as the K5 was where Honda changed to side hinged seats so there appears to be a difference in the fender. @Flyin900 said seat in his post but the part numbers he looked up are for fenders which is very helpful. Thanks for that info about Texavina because I am probably going to order a new seat as well but I will decide that one later.
 
I had been looking for a decent rear fender for some time and after getting the superseded part number 80100-457-670XW from @Flyin900 I plugged it in my Google search. The first thing that popped up was a NOS fender from Northeast Vintage Cycle but at 2 or 3 times what i wanted to pay. After several days of searching for a decent used fender at a reasonable price I said to heck with it and decided to order the new one. Called NVC and spoke to Mike and asked if he would confirm the condition of the fender since it may have been sitting on a shelf for 50 years. He said no problem and got a call back and he said was in good shape so I pulled the trigger. Received the fender today and now I have a new problem, making rest of the bike look that good. The packaging it came in is interesting and caught my attention. Yes "OOOOOH Shiny" is what I thought when I got it out of the box. According to NVC website they still show one available if any one is looking.

IMG_4829.JPG


IMG_4830.JPGIMG_4832.JPG

The only difference I noted between the old one and the new is the small grey plastic wire guide. You can also appreciate the small difference in condition of the two fenders. :LOL:
IMG_4831.JPG
 
I was actually asking about the rear fender and seats came into the conversation as the K5 was where Honda changed to side hinged seats so there appears to be a difference in the fender. @Flyin900 said seat in his post but the part numbers he looked up are for fenders which is very helpful. Thanks for that info about Texavina because I am probably going to order a new seat as well but I will decide that one later.
FYI. My Texavina seat was an absolutely straight bolt in. It took a dog’s age to get here from Vietnam but really well made. For the 450 they’ve got enough options to give you a headache.
 
FYI. My Texavina seat was an absolutely straight bolt in. It took a dog’s age to get here from Vietnam but really well made. For the 450 they’ve got enough options to give you a headache.
I was looking and after seeing all the options have decided on the classic when and if I decide to order one. Speaking of Vietnam I am looking at a front fender now because it has to look as good as the back right? Anyway a vendor on Ebay has a new fender made in Vietnam from a company called the "Motorcycle Seat Factory". Is that by chance the company that made your seat?
 
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Nice fender for sure. It looks like it came from CMSNL across the pond to your reseller in the USA I will assume.

I have looked at the seats from Texavina and while they look good, they are too expensive for this Canadian to purchase. Nice to hear that EZPete had a good experience with them and the build quality. The 1978 CB550K I have has that raised rear section on the stock seat, while a 1977 version was still a flat seat. I looked at the Texavina options and found one I liked, yet with the purchase and shipping + US exchange rate and 13% Canadian sales tax it was close to $600.00.

Too rich for me..... if I didn't like the seat.
 
Yes the big CMSNL box caught my attention as well and I am sure the fender was shipped in it from the way the packing had formed around the fender. Not sure how NVC got it but glad they had it. Their price for it is $272.00 which is expensive but feels more reasonable compared to the last price CMSNL had listed which was over $1100.00 for a NOS one and NLA. They do have an "Imperfect Alternative" for a little over $400.00 with some scratches in the chrome and some rust inside.

The Texavina seat I would like to order is on sale at the moment for $199.00 plus $75.00 shipping but I will have to hold on that. I do want to strip my seat and see if I can reupholster it if I can.
 
Yes the big CMSNL box caught my attention as well and I am sure the fender was shipped in it from the way the packing had formed around the fender. Not sure how NVC got it but glad they had it. Their price for it is $272.00 which is expensive but feels more reasonable compared to the last price CMSNL had listed which was over $1100.00 for a NOS one and NLA. They do have an "Imperfect Alternative" for a little over $400.00 with some scratches in the chrome and some rust inside.

The Texavina seat I would like to order is on sale at the moment for $199.00 plus $75.00 shipping but I will have to hold on that. I do want to strip my seat and see if I can reupholster it if I can.
If the pan is still good, the covers are pretty widely available and upholstery foam is fairly inexpensive. Shaping it is a bit of an art project but if you’re just redoing stock it seems straightforward.

Although with your reclamation project there, I wonder how the tabs on the pan look.

I know Jensen had a bit in none of his threads on it and someone else had a really good thread on a seat refresh that used window film over the foam and redid the pan and had a perfect end product.
 
If the pan is still good, the covers are pretty widely available and upholstery foam is fairly inexpensive. Shaping it is a bit of an art project but if you’re just redoing stock it seems straightforward.

Although with your reclamation project there, I wonder how the tabs on the pan look.

I know Jensen had a bit in none of his threads on it and someone else had a really good thread on a seat refresh that used window film over the foam and redid the pan and had a perfect end product.
Sometimes Sirius Consolidated in Canada has good quality seat covers and some seat shaped foam for various Honda seats.
I redid my CL77 seat and that was my first foam rebuild which went well. The cover was in good shape yet the inside of the metal pan not so much with lots of rust and rust through once I clean it up. I was able to rebuild the foam shape using various densities and some of the original foam too. With a VHT members suggestion and help I used Saran Wrap over the foam to help the cover slide onto the foam easier and a hair dryer to warm around the seat cover edges, where you stretch the cover over the metal teeth. It worked like a charm and was easy to get it back together.

This is what I started with foam wise off the pan.

P1080855.JPG

Some reshaping and rebuilding results

P1080856.JPG

Old cover still in great shape back on pan.. not perfect yet quite good.

P1080860.JPG


P1080861.JPG
 
Although with your reclamation project there, I wonder how the tabs on the pan look.
From a visual the pan looks good but won't know for sure until I pull the cover and foam. The rear fender was definitely in the worst shape as far as rust as it was a mouse colony latrine for who knows how many years.
 
Sometimes Sirius Consolidated in Canada has good quality seat covers and some seat shaped foam for various Honda seats.
I redid my CL77 seat and that was my first foam rebuild which went well. The cover was in good shape yet the inside of the metal pan not so much with lots of rust and rust through once I clean it up. I was able to rebuild the foam shape using various densities and some of the original foam too. With a VHT members suggestion and help I used Saran Wrap over the foam to help the cover slide onto the foam easier and a hair dryer to warm around the seat cover edges, where you stretch the cover over the metal teeth. It worked like a charm and was easy to get it back together.

This is what I started with foam wise off the pan.

View attachment 42089

Some reshaping and rebuilding results

View attachment 42090

Old cover still in great shape back on pan.. not perfect yet quite good.

View attachment 42091


View attachment 42092
Thanks for the info on Sirius Consolidated and I will check them out. I appreciate the tips as well. I will probably get further along on the build before making a decision. I spent time wire brushing and sanding the rear fork and I have the center stand soaking in vinegar. It is solid but covered in rust. Once the weather warms enough I can start priming and painting the frame I think I can get back to making some progress.
 
If possible give it a shot and it will help justify the rear fender and new front fender purchase. (y) My friend Paul who specializes in Yamaha XS 650's has done lots of seats and has it down to a fine art. As EzPete noted if you spend some time getting the foam good if you have to do it from scratch it turns out VG. If you can find a pre-shaped seat foam and cover for your model it will be pretty straight forward.
I used a upholstery spray glue which worked like a charm when shaping and holding things together.
 
I really do need to cut cost where I can but anyway I look at it I could probably only get a 50% return on the money I will spend on this build, but heck if I don't spend on this then it would have went to wine, women and song. That would have led to divorce which would have cost me much much more so in effect it is a wonderful investment. :LOL:
 
I knew I wasn’t crazy. Mind like an old Blockbuster. It’s all in there, just sometimes in the wrong VHS sleeve.


It was @boddy’s seat refurbish on his 450. Great thread on restoring it.
 
I was getting ready to order swing arm bushings from CBX Performance and the picture of the bushings shows a flange while the bushings in my swing arm has no flange. Question for anyone who has used thier bushings, do you not use the thrust washer and felt rings or what? This may have been addressed already in another thread but I missed it. Thanks.
 
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