Scruffy UK CB400A Hondamatic project

Looking good there, the Honda Bond will seal the cases very nicely.

Thank you. Annoyingly the very expensive tube of Hondabond has sprung a leak :sad: from a crease in the side of the tube. I had hoped to keep it on the shelf, hopefully not used again for years, Just In Case, but that looks unlikely now.

Today the oil cooler and then - if I have time - the valves will be coming out so I can clean the head up, re-grind the valves (might as well) etc. If I can figure out how to use the motorcycle valve spring compressor I just got from Amazon.
 
Don't have experience with the 400A, and generally, you can gently re-cut Honda valve seats, but grinding and/or lapping the Honda valves is not recommended....

Hopefully, Jim will verify or provide the correct guidance here.....
 
66 sprint is right the hardened surface on the 400 valves is very thin. You can lightly lap them but any more than that and you will have to replace them. Jim will give you more detail than I can.

Bill H
 
The valves cannot be ground. The hard facing on the seat area is only .0002". Even a light lapping of them can easily cut thru the hard face.
If you plan on selling the bike quickly and letting the new owner deal with it then sure, you can grind the valves. If the valves are ground they will wear quickly and eventually burn thru. Easy way to tell a bike that has ground valves is they need valve adjustments every 2-3,000 miles, constantly going out of adjustment getting tight.
Seat can be ground but have the machinist read the section in the FSM on seat width.
 
The valves cannot be ground. The hard facing on the seat area is only .0002". Even a light lapping of them can easily cut thru the hard face.
Right, glad that you were so swift to give that valuable advice, everyone. I’ll not be doing that job then. Glad I had other things to do today and couldn’t do anything on the bike. Much appreciated!
 
This work took place over several weeks.

After getting the cylinder head and barrels back from bead blasting -
barrels:PVErz9z.jpg head:UopyJjD.jpg

I then cleaned the vast amounts of bead remnants off with copious amounts of brake cleaner and compressed air. I had a lovely chat with a bike rebuilder extraordinaire mate and got the valves out (never removed valves before) & set them aside:
sX2jr6y.jpg

They were fairly coated in bead residue
POZwRG2.jpg and the valve stem oil seals were toast WJW2COE.jpg but as I have a new set, I just binned the old ones. All valve sets went through the parts washer.

I decided this wasn't enough for head & barrels so after consulting the Slim Controller, one by one they went in the dishwasher JhbrvM0.jpg and dried in the oven - here they are just removed & cooling kcnoDTJ.jpg. A spray with the air compressor to dry things out, then another, then an application of metalguard and into the airing cupboard they went for Xmas YLsS4AE.jpg.

The combustion chambers were very sooty zMdr8KT.jpg so I very carefully used a brass brush in my dremel to clean them up 6NvRIIq.jpg. I was particularly careful to avoid the valve seats because the valves can't safely be lapped back in as per advice given here.

The valves were all a fair bit carbonised too LNIcPo7.jpg so I cleaned them up the best I could KCyBH7K.jpg.


Today I have been addressing the pistons. They weren't exactly clean - here they are pictured after a first, light, go over.
Right: C43A30C3-DB3B-4EC8-9991-9CA87FD91E74.jpg and left: yT2nzkN.jpg. I did one piston at a time to avoid mixing things up. First the rings got measured in case the gap between ring & top of gap was too much - but for both pistons it was well inside tolerance, I'm pleased to say. Then the rings came out and went in the parts washer for a taste of the old ultrasonics. Then the piston head & sides got a light going over with a scotch brite brush in my dremel. After that everything got another clean and the ring grooves got scrubbed with brake cleaner and an old toothbrush.

There's a horrid complex diagram in the manual about how the oil scraper ring gaps should line up, so I made my life easier with a picture xtCd4cs.jpg. I also measured the gudgeon pins to see if they were in tolerance & was pleased to find both were: 6qqw4A0.jpg.

Last thing on the right piston was to refit the rings vqnhCuL.jpg and coat with metalguard before setting aside in a sealed bag for later use.

Then I repeated these actions on the other piston. They're both done and dusted now, ready for me to refit when the time is right. Before that happens I need a few warm enough days to coat the head and barrels in several coats of etch primer and several coats of silver paint. I hadn't planned to paint the engine but now the head & barrels have been blasted, they need protection.
 

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LOL, dishwasher and oven used for motorcycle parts cleaning. Been there many times, usually asking for forgiveness rather than permission.
Possibly I'm misreading this but you're planning on using the old rings?
For the 3 piece oil control ring I set the expander in the position you have the "top" ring and then split the upper and lower in the same other positions.
Several coats of primer and paint isn't the best idea. Paint applied too thick can hold too much heat in the cylinders.
 
Glad to see you back hadnt seen a post for awhile. Keep up the good work. Jim is right about the paint but I dont think Honda primed anything. Not sure about the motor but they didnt primer any frame parts.

Bill H
 
LOL, dishwasher and oven used for motorcycle parts cleaning. Been there many times, usually asking for forgiveness rather than permission.
The Vengeance of the Slim Controller is Mighty and Awful is her Wrath so I tend to ask first :)

Possibly I'm misreading this but you're planning on using the old rings?
At £45 ($61) a set & with two sets needed, I am definitely reusing the old rings.

For the 3 piece oil control ring I set the expander in the position you have the "top" ring and then split the upper and lower in the same other positions.
Thank you, I shall make sure the rings are placed that way.

Several coats of primer and paint isn't the best idea. Paint applied too thick can hold too much heat in the cylinders.
Noted - one coat of primer and one coat of a silver heat resistant paint. Not sure what paint to use yet but then painting time hasn’t arrived yet. Thanks a lot for the advice.
 
Glad to see you back hadnt seen a post for awhile. Keep up the good work.
Thank you. I’ve been getting on with little bits here and there but mainly I’ve been reading manuals, waiting for the head & barrels to get blasted and visiting my 4-year old grandson(i) for Xmas :)

Jim is right about the paint but I dont think Honda primed anything. Not sure about the motor but they didnt primer any frame parts.
I like using primer so I’ll just go for one coat each of primer and silver paint. As I said, I’ve not chosen the paint yet but there are plenty of heat-resistant rattle can options available.

(i) and our son & his wife, but they know they’re now just subsidiaries of the main fella ;)
 
I don't know what's available in the UK but here in the states I would recommend VHT as the best choice.
Thanks Jim, I appreciate the advice.

Hmm, doesn’t seem to be available, but also isn’t in silver

This has various colors but not as good as the motorsport type https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-engine-enamel

They’re available in the UK at a reasonable price. I have had a look and I think this should do the job at a reasonable cost:
Primer: https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-high-te...-grey-engine-enamel-primer-312g-aerosol-p148/
Paint: https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-cast-aluminium-engine-enamel-high-temperature-paint-312ml/

I shall need to do some careful masking up, then find a way to securely hang the barrel and head so I can apply primer. It’s about 14oC in my garage during the day but a heater running overnight to drag that up a bit should be acceptable for the day of applying the primer. A week to really properly cure (without artificial heat) and then a re:warming up before applying a coat of the silver paint should sort it all out. I don’t want to wait until I have a guarantee of a natural 20oC+ in the garage as that could be June.

I am going to have to very carefully indeed mask up the bottom end so that I can apply primer and paint to that. I am not sure the crank etc won’t have to come out again for that job, which would be a bit of a downer. We shall see.
 
I powder coated one 400A motor and painted a 305 with 2002 ford truck silver. Dont powder coat the motor it doesnt last very long and is easy to damage. Must be the heating and cooling. The truck paint on the 305 did well. I stripped the paint from the 400A motor and painted it with rattle can paint from Auto zone. Worked well. The owner of the CA 95 I have on the bench. took the codes from Honda and had NAPA mix the paint as original and they put the paint in spray cans for him . Turned out great. Just some thoughts . I dont know whats available over there.
There are some high temp paints but please use a paint mask. Some of the two part high temp paints are very nasty.

Bill H
 
Thanks Jim, I appreciate the advice.


Hmm, doesn’t seem to be available, but also isn’t in silver



They’re available in the UK at a reasonable price. I have had a look and I think this should do the job at a reasonable cost:
Primer: https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-high-te...-grey-engine-enamel-primer-312g-aerosol-p148/
Paint: https://www.frost.co.uk/vht-cast-aluminium-engine-enamel-high-temperature-paint-312ml/

I shall need to do some careful masking up, then find a way to securely hang the barrel and head so I can apply primer. It’s about 14oC in my garage during the day but a heater running overnight to drag that up a bit should be acceptable for the day of applying the primer. A week to really properly cure (without artificial heat) and then a re:warming up before applying a coat of the silver paint should sort it all out. I don’t want to wait until I have a guarantee of a natural 20oC+ in the garage as that could be June.

I am going to have to very carefully indeed mask up the bottom end so that I can apply primer and paint to that. I am not sure the crank etc won’t have to come out again for that job, which would be a bit of a downer. We shall see.

This is what I use on the engines I have painted https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-caliper-paint a bit higher temp. resistant
 

Thanks. As that’s the best part of £80, despite being good value considering it’s pistons and rings, I’d prefer to save my pennies for primer & paint & other necessities as will undoubtedly come along.
 
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