Help with blinker wiring

[Nick3]

Hi all,

My dad and I are working on a 1974 CL360. We received the bike from his cousin last year. It had no compression. We stripped it down, tore open the engine, rebuilt it and had the valves serviced. We are replacing lots of other parts, and we also are making sure all the electronics work. We recently ran into an issue with the blinkers. We have used A LOT of brendans videos from those guys in Houston collective, and have ordered most of our parts from there.

TLR - we had the blinkers working, we replaced the (new condenser we bought) with the old condenser, timed the points, start putting the bike together, then they stopped working, while all the other electronics work

A few things to note-
1. Our tail light running light was not working, and neither were the blinker running lights. We found the brown wire in the headlight bucket was not connected to anything. So we have a jumper hooked up from the brown wire connected to the sky blue/white (I think this is the right blinker running light) connected to black 12v positive.
2. We made the yellow-yellow/white wiring mod
3. I don’t think we have a neutral light (or if we do, that wire is not connected in the engine under the clutch cover) so we have ignored the green/red wires completely

The story: we were working on all the electronics. We got everything working: the blinkers, running lights, brake lights, starter, high/low beam, horn, etc. then, we had issue with spark. We would get it on one side, we would switch the condenser wires, and get spark on the other side (this was a new condenser). So we put the old condenser on (OEM I think), fully charged the battery, and Got spark on both sides. Then, we did the ignition timing. We continued putting the bike back together (worked on front end). It was very shortly after this we realized that all the electronics were working except the blinkers.

The issue: the tail light and front blinker and headlight running lights all work. When we turn on the left blinker switch, instead of blinking, the left blinker shuts off completely, and the right front running light stays on, and the rear blinkers dont work. When we turn on the right blinker, the right front blinker shuts off completely, the left front running light stays on, and neither rear blinkers work.

We have a two prong flasher relay from those guys in Houston. There is a third dark green ground wire in that wire bundle, but the old flasher relay was also two pronged, and I don’t believe that ground was ever connected to anything. All the fuses are new and checked multiple times to make sure they haven’t shorted. We do our testing on full battery. We know all light bulbs work. The battery is new as well.

Our starter switch wire was broke off in the right control box and we soddered that connection back together. Was far as we can tell, there are no broken connections in the left handlebar switch box, and as I said it was working before.

Additionally, can you confirm the unnamed bulb on the wiring diagram is the tail light running light?

We would really appreciate some help in trying to diagnose the issue. Neither of us has done much electrical work. I am happy to answer any follow up questions or post any pictures as needed. Please help

 

[ancientdad]

We have used A LOT of brendans videos from those guys in Houston collective, and have ordered most of our parts from there.

You're welcome to get your advice from anywhere on the internet, but be careful with some of the advice you get from those guys in Houston. They play fast and loose with the FSMs (factory service manuals) that they have for download and often deviate from when they think they know better than the Honda engineers who designed and built these bikes before most of them were born. And you're welcome to spend your money as you please, but you should know that virtually all the parts they sell can be had elsewhere for less money - and often a lot less, so it pays to shop around. And to get your advice from retired former Honda techs as well.

We found the brown wire in the headlight bucket was not connected to anything. So we have a jumper hooked up from the brown wire connected to the sky blue/white (I think this is the right blinker running light) connected to black 12v positive.

The unused brown wire in the headlight case wiring is not intended for use on US models. Something else is not right in your wiring.

The story: we were working on all the electronics. We got everything working: the blinkers, running lights, brake lights, starter, high/low beam, horn, etc. then, we had issue with spark. We would get it on one side, we would switch the condenser wires, and get spark on the other side (this was a new condenser). So we put the old condenser on (OEM I think), fully charged the battery, and Got spark on both sides. Then, we did the ignition timing. We continued putting the bike back together (worked on front end). It was very shortly after this we realized that all the electronics were working except the blinkers.

Not splitting hairs here, but there are no electronics on your bike, only electrical components. The closest thing to an electronic item on it is a diode used in the electric starter safety circuit, or the separate voltage regulator under the battery box.

The issue: the tail light and front blinker and headlight running lights all work. When we turn on the left blinker switch, instead of blinking, the left blinker shuts off completely, and the right front running light stays on, and the rear blinkers dont work. When we turn on the right blinker, the right front blinker shuts off completely, the left front running light stays on, and neither rear blinkers work.

It's normal for the running light to turn off when that side's turn signal is turned on, and vice-versa. It sounds like you might have a ground problem somewhere, solid green is ground in the stock wiring harness.

We have a two prong flasher relay from those guys in Houston. There is a third dark green ground wire in that wire bundle, but the old flasher relay was also two pronged, and I don’t believe that ground was ever connected to anything.

Again, another extra wire in the stock harness for a different region than the US bikes, did not apply to the US models that have a 2 pin flasher.

Additionally, can you confirm the unnamed bulb on the wiring diagram is the tail light running light?

Looking at the wiring diagram, the tail/stop light bulb is clearly marked.

We would really appreciate some help in trying to diagnose the issue. Neither of us has done much electrical work. I am happy to answer any follow up questions or post any pictures as needed. Please help

That's why we're here. Pictures of what you're seeing always help.

 

[Nick3]

You're welcome to get your advice from anywhere on the internet, but be careful with some of the advice you get from those guys in Houston. They play fast and loose with the FSMs (factory service manuals) that they have for download and often deviate from when they think they know better than the Honda engineers who designed and built these bikes before most of them were born. And you're welcome to spend your money as you please, but you should know that virtually all the parts they sell can be had elsewhere for less money - and often a lot less, so it pays to shop around. And to get your advice from retired former Honda techs as well.

Ok, thank you, I didn’t know this so I will keep this in mind!

The unused brown wire in the headlight case wiring is not intended for use on US models. Something else is not right in your wiring.

Ok. I think we will undo the jumper wire and reference your FSM. We have been using a clymer service manual for repairs and it has a wiring diagram at the back. We’ll start over with the turn signal and running light circuits and if there is still an issue, go chasing grounds.

Not splitting hairs here, but there are no electronics on your bike, only electrical components. The closest thing to an electronic item on it is a diode used in the electric starter safety circuit, or the separate voltage regulator under the battery box.

Again, thanks for the correction!

It's normal for the running light to turn off when that side's turn signal is turned on, and vice-versa. It sounds like you might have a ground problem somewhere, solid green is ground in the stock wiring harness.

Again, another extra wire in the stock harness for a different region the US bikes, did not apply to the US models that have a 2 pin flasher.

Looking at the wiring diagram, the tail/stop light bulb is clearly marked.

View attachment 45761

That's why we're here. Pictures of what you're seeing always help.

I’ll reference your wiring diagrams as they seem to be better than mine. I’ll give you an update once we mess with things. Thanks so much for your response!

 

[ancientdad]

We have been using a clymer service manual for repairs and it has a wiring diagram at the back. We’ll start over with the turn signal and running light circuits and if there is still an issue, go chasing grounds.

Some of the aftermarket manuals are okay, but most have more typos in them than the FSMs do. The FSMs aren't perfect, proper translation was an issue in the '60s and '70s but they're still the best resource. And this is the link to those guys in Houston's FSM for the 360 models, they have the same one we do in our library. This is the one with the wiring diagram I took the screenshot from above.

Honda_CB250_CB360_CL360_CJ250T_CJ360T_Shop_Manual.pdf

drive.google.com

Also, with reference to better parts prices and the availability of better parts elsewhere, did you take a look at this link from your Welcome Package?

Tips for identifying and locating parts

Lots of people new to the vintage Honda motorcycle world are unfamiliar with how to identify the parts they need and where to look for them. The question is often asked: "Where can I find a (part name)?" The first step to finding any part for any of our favorite Hondas is to properly identify...

www.vintagehondatwins.com

 

[Nick3]

Some of the aftermarket manuals are okay, but most have more typos in them than the FSMs do. The FSMs aren't perfect, proper translation was an issue in the '60s and '70s but they're still the best resource. And this is the link to those guys in Houston's FSM for the 360 models, they have the same one we do in our library. This is the one with the wiring diagram I took the screenshot from above.

Honda_CB250_CB360_CL360_CJ250T_CJ360T_Shop_Manual.pdf

drive.google.com

Thanks for the link! I found this a while back actually but I never took a close look at it, I figured it wasn’t much different from the one I had but boy was I wrong, this is great thanks!

Also, with reference to better parts prices and the availability of better parts elsewhere, did you take a look at this link from your Welcome Package?

Tips for identifying and locating parts

Lots of people new to the vintage Honda motorcycle world are unfamiliar with how to identify the parts they need and where to look for them. The question is often asked: "Where can I find a (part name)?" The first step to finding any part for any of our favorite Hondas is to properly identify...

www.vintagehondatwins.com

I bought a few things from CMSNL they have been great and their exploded parts diagrams are great, I’ll probably be ordering the parts from there from now on, and I’ll check out the other shops too. So much thanks! I’ll post updates on here with how things go for us

 

[esmith250624]

The issue: the tail light and front blinker and headlight running lights all work. When we turn on the left blinker switch, instead of blinking, the left blinker shuts off completely, and the right front running light stays on, and the rear blinkers dont work. When we turn on the right blinker, the right front blinker shuts off completely, the left front running light stays on, and neither rear blinkers work.

We have a two prong flasher relay from those guys in Houston. There is a third dark green ground wire in that wire bundle, but the old flasher relay was also two pronged, and I don’t believe that ground was ever connected to anything. All the fuses are new and checked multiple times to make sure they haven’t shorted. We do our testing on full battery. We know all light bulbs work. The battery is new as well.

This sounds like it is in the turn signal handle bar switch, but before we jump the gun, let test some things.

you did not mention what you are using to test. you need either an automotive style test light or a multimeter for testing voltage.

when you turn the keyswitch to the on postition, that applies battery voltage to the black wire connected to the flasher relay. check to see if that exists first. then when the flasher relay is connected that voltage travels up the grey wire to the turn signal switch. there should be a connector on the grey wire in the headlight that you can use to test if the voltage is getting that far. If that checks out then clean the connectors inside the turn signal switch.

that switch should be taking the power coming in on the grey wire and applying it to the orange or Light Blue wire depending on which direction you select.

 

[Nick3]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies! My dad went and bought a new flasher relay… and that solved the issue. That’s the second part from those guys in Houston that has not worked. I thank you both so much for your helps!