1975 CB360

… I’ve just noticed that I’ve somehow become a ‘Veteran Member’! I rather assume that is either a function of time served or the number of posts I’ve made (or a combination of both). I’m not sure I’ve justified the title as I’ve been on receive rather than send most of the time, and have benefited enormously from the knowledge of experienced members.

:)
 
Othen said:
… I’ve just noticed that I’ve somehow become a ‘Veteran Member’! I rather assume that is either a function of time served or the number of posts I’ve made (or a combination of both). I’m not sure I’ve justified the title as I’ve been on receive rather than send most of the time, and have benefited enormously from the knowledge of experienced members.

:)
Click to expand...
It's a total post milestone.

Send and receive ratios here seem to be just fine, those who have things of need are offering them appropriately and those who need things are getting them. (y)
 
No idea how I missed this until now although things were a bit 'hectic' since middle of last year and I wasn't logging in.
Nice, very unusual for seat cover to be original and quite unusual for silencers to still be good, even with only 21,000 miles.
The lead in petrol back then caused corrosion, guts rotted out after a few years
There were import restrictions when they were being sent to Britain, the steering lock was made in Germany, sent to Japan then sent back all over Europe so key was completely different to ignition and seat lock. (the round head key)
The ball bearing in clutch actuator was always listed as 5/16", not metric (Honda had some weird mixes, spokes were 1/8" Whitworth, even Harley had gone to metric threads by late 70's)
It's important to use 10W/40 oil (although temperature in Britain at present 20W/50 is probably recommended?)
Have you done oil transfer piece mod?
It's one thing that's pretty important on CB/CJ 250/360.
The outer sheath of clutch cable is generally 4mm too long on most aftermarket and some Honda replacements which makes clutch adjustment very finicky.
It's still possible to get working properly but may need lock nut on sprocket cover removed and adjuster screwed all the way down.(If there are any problems with CB/CJ 250's/360's, I've come across them at some point in the last 50+ years)
 
crazypj said:
No idea how I missed this until now although things were a bit 'hectic' since middle of last year and I wasn't logging in.
Nice, very unusual for seat cover to be original and quite unusual for silencers to still be good, even with only 21,000 miles.
The lead in petrol back then caused corrosion, guts rotted out after a few years
There were import restrictions when they were being sent to Britain, the steering lock was made in Germany, sent to Japan then sent back all over Europe so key was completely different to ignition and seat lock. (the round head key)
The ball bearing in clutch actuator was always listed as 5/16", not metric (Honda had some weird mixes, spokes were 1/8" Whitworth, even Harley had gone to metric threads by late 70's)
It's important to use 10W/40 oil (although temperature in Britain at present 20W/50 is probably recommended?)
Have you done oil transfer piece mod?
It's one thing that's pretty important on CB/CJ 250/360.
The outer sheath of clutch cable is generally 4mm too long on most aftermarket and some Honda replacements which makes clutch adjustment very finicky.
It's still possible to get working properly but may need lock nut on sprocket cover removed and adjuster screwed all the way down.(If there are any problems with CB/CJ 250's/360's, I've come across them at some point in the last 50+ years)
Click to expand...
Gosh, there is a lot in there. Thank you, let’s see if I can answer it all in one go:
1. I think I’ve discovered the solution to the silencers’ longevity: there are tiny drain holes close to the front and at the bottom on each. I use the same trick on my Volvo Amazon to drain excess water from the rear (coolest) box of the exhaust where it otherwise tends to condense and rot from the inside. I think a PO must have drilled them early on the the CB360’s life because both silencers are in very good condition.
2. It is normally UV light that degrades seat fabric on motorcycles (if not physical rips). I don’t know, but that suggests the motorcycle has been garaged for its life.
3. That is an interesting story about the keys - but does explain why I have two identical sets of keys And not one single key.
4. I have changed the whole of the clutch actuation mechanism - all 4 parts (if I recall about £60 from DSS), including the #10 size ball bearing. It works absolutely fine now.
5. I fixed the old clutch cable by lubricating it properly (I bought a little gizmo from Amazon for a fiver that allows me to squirt aerosol under pressure until it reaches the other end), so I’ve re-fitted that. The after market clutch cable inner I got was about 20mm too long. I could fit it, but there would be no adjustment left at either end if the cable. I found a solder on nipple exactly the right size in my spares shed. In the fullness of time (when I’ve got the soldering kit out) my plan is to cut 20mm off and solder the new nipple in the right place. In the meantime the cable (and nipple) can reside in my spares shed.
6. What is an ‘oil transfer piece mod’?
7. Yes, I use 10W40 - same stuff as I had left over from the Gold Wing I sold earlier this year.

Thank you so much for taking an interest. A link to the information on point #6 above would be much appreciated.

Alan :)
 
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Othen said:
Gosh, there is a lot in there. Thank you, let’s see if I can answer it all in one go:
1. I think I’ve discovered the solution to the silencers’ longevity: there are tiny drain holes close to the front and at the bottom on each. I use the same trick on my Volvo Amazon to drain excess water from the rear (coolest) box of the exhaust where it otherwise tends to condense and rot from the inside. I think a PO must have drilled them early on the the CB360’s life because both silencers are in very good condition.
Click to expand...
Those drain holes are likely from the factory, all Honda mufflers had water drain holes at low points underneath in an attempt to help with longevity though they were easily clogged over the years and of course, became non-functional once blocked.
Othen said:
2. It is normally UV light that degrades seat fabric on motorcycles (if not physical rips). I don’t know, but that suggests the motorcycle has been garaged for its life.
Click to expand...
UV exposure if the biggest enemy.
Othen said:
3. That is an interesting story about the keys - but does explain why I have two identical sets of keys And not one single key.
Click to expand...
Not something I was aware of myself and I owned one in early '75, guess I just didn't remember.
Othen said:
6. What is an ‘oil transfer piece mod’?
Click to expand...
Here's the link to it

CB350 oil transfer piece - with pictures (also applies to CB250)

Hi all, Was sent a set of 350 carbs to modify plus, the oil filter cover. Actually took measurements of this one as the clearance between sliding oil transfer piece and delivery to filter seemed smaller than usual? Anyway, oil delivery hole to centrifugal filter varies between 0.250" and 0.280"...
www.vintagehondatwins.com www.vintagehondatwins.com
Othen said:
7. Yes, I use 10W40 - same stuff as I had left over from the Gold Wing I sold earlier this year.
Click to expand...
But is it modern oil with friction modifiers in it? You want oil rated JASO-MA or MA2, safe for wet clutches and likely a bit higher zinc for our old flat tappet engines.
 
Been using 5W/40 Mobil 1 or Rotella full synthetic for last 15 years or so, clutch slips with better oil, even without friction modifiers.
Add about half the ZDDP recommended for car use because of wet clutch, just to keep cam and rockers happy.
I had Brendon's 360 apart after about 2,000 miles of general abuse, (putting it on dyno when you know timing is off on one side a very bad idea. Still made over 24bhp on one cylinder though) cam and rockers were more polished than when I first built it so it definitely does some good
I always fit heavy duty clutch springs in all my Honda's and most of my other bikes, diaphragm springs can be difficult to find and packing isn't possible on most.
I used to get race springs for CB350 but they were discontinued a few years ago, EBC makes 'heavy duty' springs, they are very slightly stiffer than stock, couldn't notice any difference in clutch pull on 360 or XS 650 but it doesn't slip so everything OK.
 
ancientdad said:
Those drain holes are likely from the factory, all Honda mufflers had water drain holes at low points underneath in an attempt to help with longevity though they were easily clogged over the years and of course, became non-functional once blocked.

UV exposure if the biggest enemy.

Not something I was aware of myself and I owned one in early '75, guess I just didn't remember.

Here's the link to it

CB350 oil transfer piece - with pictures (also applies to CB250)

Hi all, Was sent a set of 350 carbs to modify plus, the oil filter cover. Actually took measurements of this one as the clearance between sliding oil transfer piece and delivery to filter seemed smaller than usual? Anyway, oil delivery hole to centrifugal filter varies between 0.250" and 0.280"...
www.vintagehondatwins.com www.vintagehondatwins.com

But is it modern oil with friction modifiers in it? You want oil rated JASO-MA or MA2, safe for wet clutches and likely a bit higher zinc for our old flat tappet engines.
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Many thanks - again,

It is modern oil, the stuff I buy on eBay for £20/gallon (British gallon -although I suspect the can is 5l). I didn’t particularly buy it with that in mind, but I just checked the can in the garage and it is (by chance) JASO MA2.

When Mr Honda wrote 10W40 on the oil filler 51 years ago that is exactly what he meant: the most important things with all motors are to use the right grade of oil and change it frequently.

:)
 
Othen said:
I’ve just noticed that I’ve somehow become a ‘Veteran Member’! I rather assume that is either a function of time served or the number of posts I’ve made (or a combination of both). I’m not sure I’ve justified the title as I’ve been on receive rather than send most of the time, and have benefited enormously from the knowledge of experienced members.
Click to expand...
I would say the title is well-earned. The current post count is 200,367 with 5800 members for about 34.5 posts per registered member. I would speculate that more than 25% of the registered members have yet to make a single post, so your 270+ posts put you away above the mean.

Each member participates according to their interest and availability, but I appreciate those who stick around and contribute, whether that means sharing their own work for others to learn from or checking in on threads started by other members. After the administrators, it's up to the active members to keep a forum relevant and successful.
 
Othen said:
Thank you so much for explaining that.

:)
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Those figures are adjustable, I chose those post threshold totals when I first built this place out within the vBulletin software. They were just arbitrary numbers I chose on the fly, with nothing further beyond veteran status. Honestly, I didn't expect to hit 35,000 along the way either but time flies when you're (mostly) having fun. And so do the post totals.
 
crazypj said:
British gallon is 4.54 litres,
U.S. gallon 3.88 litres
British gallon is based on beer :cool:
U.S. gallon is based on imported French wine :rolleyes:
It's pretty amazing the stuff you learn as a 'motorcycle mechanic :ROFLMAO:
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The size of the British (Imperial) gallon is due to there being 20 fl oz in a pint (40 fl oz to a quart), that of the US gallon is due to there being 16 fl oz in a pint (32 fl oz/quart) - the size of the fl oz is exactly the same in both cases - the ratio is always 5:4 for that reason; nothing to do with litres, beer or wine.

Alan :)
 
ancientdad said:
Those figures are adjustable, I chose those post threshold totals when I first built this place out within the vBulletin software. They were just arbitrary numbers I chose on the fly, with nothing further beyond veteran status. Honestly, I didn't expect to hit 35,000 along the way either but time flies when you're (mostly) having fun. And so do the post totals.
Click to expand...
… if I may say, you do an excellent job of running this forum Ancientdad.

In my limited experience of online motorcar and motorcycle forums (I don’t think we say ‘fora’ any more - I’d have been chastised for not doing so at school, but these days I think folk would think me very old fashioned indeed), they are a bit hit and miss. I‘ve found the Volvo Owners’ Club’s forum to be first class (although a bit raucous away from the technical areas), but others I’ve tried for Triumph and Royal Enfield motorcycles to be almost useless. I’m pleased to say the Vintage Honda Twins site is every bit as good as the VOC forum - indeed the technical library is much better. Well done.

Alan :)
 
Actually, it is due to beer and wine measures from over 200+ years ago.
I forget the details, researched it at least 22 years ago.
The penalties for 'short measures' in Britain were pretty bad if caught (it was previously incredibly common, led to riots, etc)
Because of the French Revolution, there was some concern something similar could happen in Britain so Parliament did try to placate the masses.
( 'Bakers Dozen' is another example from 1700's).
The French and American's were allies back then so it was kinda expected to use the French 'gallon' for measuring liquid particularly as America was trying to break away from Britain (probably 100years before litres were 'invented'?)
Anyway,
Until the 1880's, the only standardised measure in USA was the Troy Ounce for precious metals.
Congress passed law in 1860's but it took over 30 years to be implemented, over 40 years before entire country was 'on the same page'
When I was teaching motorcycle mechanics I would try and answer any question that came up, often totally unrelated. (most common, 'why is the sky blue?)
Even though I had driven past Richard Price Centre for years, and remember Princess Ann opening it, I had no idea who he was.
Turns out he invented actuary tables used by insurance companies and was a honorary American at the request of Benjamin Franklin.
At 51, Price considered himself to be 'too old' to travel to America'
I probably learned more history in first 5 years living in USA than I had in previous 40+ years in Britain.
I didn't know many people outside work and internet kept me in touch with everyone 'at home' plus made finding stuff a lot easier. (I got into some interesting engineering stuff at Porsche and various other companies just by clicking links on forums, no one paid too much attention to security, outside of banking or military back then.)
 
Othen said:
… if I may say, you do an excellent job of running this forum Ancientdad.

In my limited experience of online motorcar and motorcycle forums (I don’t think we say ‘fora’ any more - I’d have been chastised for not doing so at school, but these days I think folk would think me very old fashioned indeed), they are a bit hit and miss. I‘ve found the Volvo Owners’ Club’s forum to be first class (although a bit raucous away from the technical areas), but others I’ve tried for Triumph and Royal Enfield motorcycles to be almost useless. I’m pleased to say the Vintage Honda Twins site is every bit as good as the VOC forum - indeed the technical library is much better. Well done.

Alan :)
Click to expand...
Thanks very much Alan. From the beginning we (or those of us left still active and/or standing at this point) decided to keep things civil here in order to avoid the spiral of degradation that happens when no holds barred, free-for-all environments are allowed. It has made for a few disgruntled souls who don't stay long, but aside from that the atmosphere here is generally friendly and cordial which obviously was the goal. And I have dedicated myself to ensuring that there is as much accuracy in our information as possible, as well as the ongoing effort to keep things reasonably organized. I'm glad things are still progressing as hoped now that we enter the second half of our first decade. My only future wish is to see that other redundant, increasingly inaccurate and useless (aside from corporate profit) forum finally fade from existence someday. Hopefully I live long enough to watch it happen.
 
crazypj said:
Actually, it is due to beer and wine measures from over 200+ years ago.
I forget the details, researched it at least 22 years ago.
The penalties for 'short measures' in Britain were pretty bad if caught (it was previously incredibly common, led to riots, etc)
Because of the French Revolution, there was some concern something similar could happen in Britain so Parliament did try to placate the masses.
( 'Bakers Dozen' is another example from 1700's).
The French and American's were allies back then so it was kinda expected to use the French 'gallon' for measuring liquid particularly as America was trying to break away from Britain (probably 100years before litres were 'invented'?)
Anyway,
Until the 1880's, the only standardised measure in USA was the Troy Ounce for precious metals.
Congress passed law in 1860's but it took over 30 years to be implemented, over 40 years before entire country was 'on the same page'
When I was teaching motorcycle mechanics I would try and answer any question that came up, often totally unrelated. (most common, 'why is the sky blue?)
Even though I had driven past Richard Price Centre for years, and remember Princess Ann opening it, I had no idea who he was.
Turns out he invented actuary tables used by insurance companies and was a honorary American at the request of Benjamin Franklin.
At 51, Price considered himself to be 'too old' to travel to America'
I probably learned more history in first 5 years living in USA than I had in previous 40+ years in Britain.
I didn't know many people outside work and internet kept me in touch with everyone 'at home' plus made finding stuff a lot easier. (I got into some interesting engineering stuff at Porsche and various other companies just by clicking links on forums, no one paid too much attention to security, outside of banking or military back then.)
Click to expand...
Every day is a school day :)

You are so right about the internet - it has changed our lives, almost exclusively for the better - in so many ways.

Alan
 
Regular readers will know that I’m not restoring the CB360 - just making it a nice motorcycle I can use, it is however let down a bit by the right side panel, which is quite damaged and has lost a few bits here and there (the photo is quite kind to it - in the flesh it is quite poor). A few days ago I noticed a NOS part on eBay; £38 later it was on its way to me by mail, and it arrived today:

IMG_0655 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

… it is green, rather than blue, so I’ll get it painted, the badge fitted and on the bike. It will make me happy :)
 
stl360+450 said:
I don't know, Alan, you're rapidly approaching the point of no return. =)

Nice pick-up, I'm looking forward to seeing how the painter does with it.
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… it is so difficult to prevent mission creep. Yesterday evening I found myself wondering whether it might be worth stripping the tank and getting it painted - but then of course it be looking for a left side panel - and then perhaps some new rims and spokes - and of course I might as well just strip the frame bare to have it powder coated. Fortunately I came to my senses and we are back to just changing the one side panel to make the bike nice :cool:

I do think I was a little fortunate in finding a NOS side panel - I imagine this one has been sitting on someone’s garage shelf since they bought it for their green Honda in about 1985… the bike that was sold in 1989 :).

Alan
 
Returning to PJ's comment about lock sets and Germany. My CB250G5 was bought new from Skellerns in Worcester. When it arrived, I was disappointed to discover that it was some sort of import from the continent, having a huge rear mudguard ( fender ) shaped like a German coal scuttle helmet, rather than the neat US style abbreviated rear fender that the UK bikes came with. It was fitted with Metzeler tyres rather than the usual Japanese Dunlops. In my youthful innocence, I changed the ( what I assumed were ) nasty German tyres for British Dunlop TT100's. And one key fitted all the locks.
 
Othen said:
Regular readers will know that I’m not restoring the CB360 - just making it a nice motorcycle I can use, it is however let down a bit by the right side panel, which is quite damaged and has lost a few bits here and there (the photo is quite kind to it - in the flesh it is quite poor). A few days ago I noticed a NOS part on eBay; £38 later it was on its way to me by mail, and it arrived today:

IMG_0655 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

… it is green, rather than blue, so I’ll get it painted, the badge fitted and on the bike. It will make me happy :)
Click to expand...
I've been having a go with the paint. I bought 4 petrol tanks and i've got 3 decent side panels, and 1 with a broken off grill piece.

I've been trying to do pinstripes. I'm not doing a restoration of my 1975 CB250G5, more making something that I like the look of.

This is the first attempt with the panels after the lacquer but before the cutting compound and polish

1000044202.jpg
 
Ollioso said:
I've been having a go with the paint. I bought 4 petrol tanks and i've got 3 decent side panels, and 1 with a broken off grill piece.

I've been trying to do pinstripes. I'm not doing a restoration of my 1975 CB250G5, more making something that I like the look of.

This is the first attempt with the panels after the lacquer but before the cutting compound and polish

View attachment 58131
Click to expand...
That looks pretty good to me.

Alan :)
 
I think you were damn lucky to find a NOS cover that cheap in any colour.
Couldn't help but laugh at 'mission creep', probably best to stop counting how much time and money you spend from here on.
Pretty sure we've all done it at some time, 'quick fix' that ends up becoming $7,000+ 'restomod' over 3~4 years. (assuming $100 /hr for your DIY labour)
Probably 2009 someone posted my 'CB390' was probably a $15,000 bike because I made various parts and did lots of modifications, even so, it really isn't anything too special, quite a few parts never made it onto bike, some, I couldn't get what I wanted and made (like brackets for clip-on bars)Clip-onbracket.jpg
 
crazypj said:
I think you were damn lucky to find a NOS cover that cheap in any colour.
Couldn't help but laugh at 'mission creep', probably best to stop counting how much time and money you spend from here on.
Pretty sure we've all done it at some time, 'quick fix' that ends up becoming $7,000+ 'restomod' over 3~4 years. (assuming $100 /hr for your DIY labour)
Probably 2009 someone posted my 'CB390' was probably a $15,000 bike because I made various parts and did lots of modifications, even so, it really isn't anything too special, quite a few parts never made it onto bike, some, I couldn't get what I wanted and made (like brackets for clip-on bars)View attachment 58145
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The mission creep piece is often hard to resist - although I think I’ve managed to keep it under control with my older vehicles (a 1963 Volvo Amazon, 1972 Volvo 1800ES, 1975 CB360, 1977 CB200, 1957 New Hudson Autocycle… not counting the more modern vehicles). Me being a tightwad helps.
I do keep spreadsheets for all the older vehicle project costs - but only for parts, my labour always comes free. If I included my labour costs in the eventual value of the projects I’d have to pay myself a shilling per hour!
Alan :)

Addendum: that is very impressive home fabrication (the clip on brackets).
 
stl360+450 said:
I don't know, Alan, you're rapidly approaching the point of no return. =)

Nice pick-up, I'm looking forward to seeing how the painter does with it.
Click to expand...
The painter turned out to be me; I’d ordered a mixed aerosol to Honda recipe PB-5C-S for less than £20 and had a go at making my green side panel into a candy riviera blue special one. I’d carefully taken off the badges and rubber bungs, and previously repaired the left side panel from the back, so I gave both covers 4 coats of paint plus two of clear lacquer. I’m really happy with them:

IMG_6734 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

… and they look very good on the motorcycle, the new one:

IMG_6739 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

… and the repaired one; not quite so good but very much better than it was yesterday:

IMG_6738 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

The CB360 is much tidier now:

IMG_6735 by Alan Othen, on Flickr

A good day :)

Addendum: in other news I bought a 1950 grey Fergie this morning:

IMG_0657 by Alan Othen, on Flickr
 
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Othen said:
… it is so difficult to prevent mission creep. Yesterday evening I found myself wondering whether it might be worth stripping the tank and getting it painted - but then of course it be looking for a left side panel - and then perhaps some new rims and spokes - and of course I might as well just strip the frame bare to have it powder coated. Fortunately I came to my senses and we are back to just changing the one side panel to make the bike nice :cool:

I do think I was a little fortunate in finding a NOS side panel - I imagine this one has been sitting on someone’s garage shelf since they bought it for their green Honda in about 1985… the bike that was sold in 1989 :).

Alan
Click to expand...
Ha! I call that the "well, while I'm here..." Next thing I know the engine is out, and my AI agent is scrolling the web for parts
 
What was your paint process in more detail? The metallic paint came out really nice

I've been doing it like this (criques very much welcome):
  1. Sanding the panel up to 800 grit then wiping clean
  2. Filler primer, 3 coats
  3. Sanding any excess bits or debris away with 1000, then spraying lightly with the primer again
  4. 3 coats of paint
  5. 3 coats of lacquer
  6. Cutting compound on an applicator, maybe 3 or 4 times
  7. Polish and buff
I think the next stage if I want it super shiny is adding filler after the initial sanding. But i'm thinking that maybe there are other steps to do?
 
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