1968 CL450 restoration

[Flight Risk]

I just remembered that when I was installing the right-hand controls on the handlebars, the starter button wire came off and I had to solder it back on.

If I have shorted the starter button (which makes sense because it turns over when the key is on), would any of the lights work?

 

[ancientdad]

Yes, it's a ground completion button for the starter so it is not connected to the lights in any way. Now, the headlight switch is in the same right hand switch assembly (upper half) so is it possible another wire came loose and you weren't aware of it? The power feed for the headlight portion is black, switched 12v on all Hondas of that era.

 

[Flight Risk]

Yes, I pinched the starter wire in 2 places. I tried to use electricians tape (gently) to wrap that wire, and in doing so I broke the soldered connection between that wire and its insulating plate/endpoint (what a poor design this is). In order to fix this, I want to take the brass plate that covers it off and then just solder the wire back on the insulated endpoint without risking another short. I can't, however, get the plate off because the screw that holds it down will not budge. I have used Lloyds Moveit, heat and a manual impact driver with no luck. I don't want it have to drill it out because it is so small and it is still on the bike :-(

I'm waiting till tomorrow to do any more work on it so that I can calm my nerves and hopefully get some advice here. (Contrary to what I said above, my attempt at soldering this same wire in was on the original control and trying to solder this in with the endpoint in place below the brass plate was how I buggered it up enough to cause me to replace it. This same screw would not come out on that one. I do have replacement screws from that original control if I do have to drill it).

Also, when I loosened the control enough so that the starter wire was not pinched, I was able to see that when the starter is not turning, the turn signal light comes on brightly, but no other light comes on when I try those switches. The flasher does not flash, it stays on bright and solid.

The headlight wires are really good inside the control, so if it is in that wire, it is somewhere else.

 

[Flight Risk]

Couldn't sleep last night and my fingers felt steady so I attempted to break a second right-hand control unit with solder overspills. It seems that I was unsuccessful, however, and now I have a starter button that works only when the button is pushed while the key is on.... go figure.

Now turning on the key will get me a solid orange turn signal light on that tach, and no other lights. including rear brake,

I'm going to start with the grounds when I get home from work.

 

[ancientdad]

It seems that I was unsuccessful, however, and now I have a starter button that works only when the button is pushed while the key is on.... go figure.

Sounds like a success to me!

 

[Flight Risk]

And I suddenly feel the need to check the fuse in my "new harness". I have never checked to make sure that one was in there.

 

[ancientdad]

And I suddenly feel the need to check the fuse in my "new harness". I have never checked to make sure that one was in there.

Glad this came up. You might consider changing the fuse holder and fuse to a modern ATC style blade fuse, the older glass fuses in these bikes are metric sized and finding the right length, that covers the entire brass contact to avoid high resistance leading to added heat in the plastic fuse holder from SAE fuses used instead, are getting hard to find.

 

[wentwest]

Maybe this is a terrible idea, but I routinely heat up the end of a fuel line before mounting it or trying to remove it. A heat gun is my tool of choice and you learn to know when it's hot enough by touch or when you smell the hot rubber smell. And just a wipe of WD40 that you squirted on your finger tip and then rubbed on the steel fitting also helps.

 

[Flight Risk]

UPDATE TIME: Not expecting the hear back tonight for two reasons... 1/ I left my phone at work, so I cannot share the videos till tomorrow and 2/ You should all be out dealing with the onslaught of ghouls and goblins tonight...

I went to start the bike on Saturday. Turning on the petcock made both carb bowls drip from the overflow, and also one of the drain plugs was leaking. I decided to try it anyways, since the bowls were full. It took several attempts, with the battery tender hooked up to the incredibly weak conventional battery that has been charging on Battery Tender Storage for 5 years.

Eventually I did get it started (no video). It was loud and the engine was running fast. Very little smoke. The entire run lasted for less than thirty seconds. after about 20 it leaned out (running faster) and then ran out of fuel.

I took the carbs off and reset the bowl height (damned internet videos... I promise to learn) using Bill Lane's plastic card method and discovered that one of the bowls would not seal around the screw (luckily I bought some used carbs for parts and the replacement worked.

I also ordered another battery... an AGM (Motobatt).

TODAY:

Before the monsters descended, I put the bike in the driveway, connected the Battery Tender (why not) and tried again. No leakage at the carbs. It took four tries and when it went, it was really rough and hard to keep going.( The temperature was 5 degrees Celsius (41 Fahrenheit) so I had the choke fully on (video tomorrow if needed). Since I had to keep pumping the gas to keep it going, I let it die.

I tried again a few minutes later and it started the same way... really rough and it was very smoky. I turned off the choke and the roughness went away but the smoke remained. What I was left with was a very fast running (and very loud) bike. About 10 seconds into the run, before I could even check the oil pump, the engine leaned out again... revving faster then dying.

I realized that I had not put that much gas in and I had the petcock on run... not reserve (shame on me).

I tried to get it going two more times after setting the petcock to Reserve, but with no luck before the ghouls started arriving. I have a 5 second video of the fast running after the choke came off, but I don't know how to upload it to this site. Please help and I will post the rough running and this video tomorrow.

 

[ancientdad]

I have a 5 second video of the fast running after the choke came off, but I don't know how to upload it to this site. Please help and I will post the rough running and this video tomorrow.

You don't upload videos here, you have to host them elsewhere and link them here. YouTube, Google Photos and many others do it free.

I cringe when I think of the many short starts at much higher than safe rpm for an engine that hasn't been started in a while, much less a DOHC 450 where it can take as long as 2 full minutes to get oil to the cams and followers.

 

[Flight Risk]

The next time I try it the tank will be at least half full and hopefully I can get it tuned down to a proper idle

 

[Flight Risk]

Update: I still have not got it running acceptably, and in fact I have not had it running at all since it was running too fast and died two days ago.

I went to Bill Lane's carb setup document and found that I had everything set up appropriately except for the air/fuel mixture which was three full turns out (from a video) and I adjusted that in to 3/4 of a turn as per Bill Lane.

I tried several times to get it started yesterday and twice I got what seemed like one cylinder on one stroke, but never even close to ignition.

Firstly, regarding OIL in the cylinder head: Three cheers for a leaky seal on the left side cylinder head cover. It shows that oil is getting up there!
I guess that I will now have to replace that as well.

So now a question:

When I was emptying my tank, I noticed that only one fuel line flowed at any time when the petcock was turned on and it was draining into a jerry can. This made me wonder if one of the carbs was getting no gas. My first thought was to drain the bowls, which would prove that there had been gasoline inside both, but the drain bolts both face the left side of the bike, and wouldn't you know it, the exhaust pipe blocks access to it unless you have an L-shaped flathead screwdriver, which I don't... (or you take the exhaust off again )

So, in my mind, I am convinced that this is why the bowl is held in place by a lever... I can just pull the bowls.

Of course, the seals came out on both sides and putting them back in has proven a real hassle because gravity is not my friend. With a lot of effort, I got the right side in, but there is no pipe blocking access there. On the left, however, it leaks every time I think that I have it installed. One problem seems to be that the seal that came with my those guys in Houston Carb old style rebuild kit has a flaw when it comes to my old style bowl. When it leaks I generally find that one side of the seal has come out because it is too big

You see, by the pilot jet, how the seal does not sit flush with the sides of the bowl top? This is because the rest of the seal is pressing out on the sides and something's got to give, so this corner gets pushed in. I was able to install this seal with no leaks when the carb was off, but it is a terrible fit when you are also balancing the bowl on your fingertips trying to align what you cannot see.

What I am trying to do, as you can see in the photo above, is to use an old carb body that I have for parts to constrain the sides of the seal, and to use Permatex Aviation sealer to stick it to the carb bowl. If this works, then I should have a sticky seal attached in a way that fits on the bowl and I hope that I can just slip it on. If this works, I know that the gasoline will eventually melt away all of the Permatex because it breaks down in alcohol.

Is this a bad idea?

I have purchased new seals, but I would rather wait and put them in next time the carbs HAVE to come off....

 

[ancientdad]

Likely nothing wrong with the petcock. The fuel flow out of it takes the path of least resistance, if you cover one spigot the fuel will flow at the same rate out of the other. It's just the nature of the design. Or as the phrase the car dealerships use goes, "operates as designed"

 

[Flight Risk]

I'm a bit peeved about the fact that my left-side intake cam cover is leaking. On the positive side, I know that oil is getting to the head, but on the negative side, oil is getting out. Funny enough, the mechanic that rebuilt the engine for me used all of my replacement gaskets for the other cam covers, but the one for this cover is still with my gasket set.

I would like to install this new gasket but, though I am a noob, I am not noob enough to realize that this is where you adjust your intake valve clearances and I am sure that just pulling it off is not a good idea.

I want to fix this leak, but I really don't want to pull the engine again. The mechanic that did this work is a five hour drive away, so if I can do it myself, that would be preferable to me. Is there a technique (foolproof) that would allow me to replace this gasket on the bike? I assume that I would have to adjust clearances again after that. :-(

 

[ancientdad]

It's odd that you have a gasket remaining, though he might have decided to re-use the gasket on the cam bearing cover since it was intact and would have been difficult to remove. That said, there's also an o-ring on the follower shaft (where the valve is adjusted) under that cover and he may not have replaced it either. Many gasket sets do not come with all 4 o-rings.

You are right to assume that it isn't just a simple 'pull it off and replace the gasket' situation. That cover is also the support bearing (oil-fed aluminum bushing, really) for the left side of the intake camshaft, and yes, a strict procedure must be followed if you're going to attempt to replace it yourself.

The last time I offered the step-by-step plan to do the job, the member moved forward with less mechanical experience than I realized and almost caused himself major issues. At that moment I said I would never advise or inform anyone how to try to do it in the future because a couple of people, one of whom tried it about a year ago and did NOT follow my instructions properly, have suffered difficult situation as a result of not doing it the exactly way I described and the one member has not been seen since so I have no idea how things turned out.

It is not at all risky if instructions are followed to the letter. But this is one of those situations that explains why we ask for new member introductions here at VHT, in part so everyone can get to know each other but in large part because we have zero idea of your mechanical experience when you join. It helps tremendously to know just how experienced you are with tools and working on bikes, much less internal engine components as drastically bad results can happen when directions are not followed correctly or someone leaps before they look.

 

[Flight Risk]

Thanks Ancientdad,

I trust my situational engineering skills, but the fact that I drove the engine five hours to have it rebuilt by a professional probably says more about my overall skills. I will reach out to him. The price of a few tanks of gas is probably a small price to pay for piece of mind.

 

[ancientdad]

Thanks Ancientdad,

I trust my situational engineering skills, but the fact that I drove the engine five hours to have it rebuilt by a professional probably says more about my overall skills. I will reach out to him. The price of a few tanks of gas is probably a small price to pay for piece of mind.

He could do it in the frame if he simply follows the right procedure, which essentially is to rotate the engine until that intake valve is fully closed and loosen the valve adjustment to its loosest point, then remove the cam bearing cover while not rotating the engine at all until the cam bearing cover is cleaned, gasket replaced and reinstalled. That's the short version and it really isn't difficult if proper procedure is followed. During my first assembly of my red 450 build, I had incorrectly assembled the oil filter valve in the 3 screw oil filter cover on the right side of the engine, and I went through 3 replacement cam bearings and destroyed a left exhaust follower and badly damaged the exhaust camshaft before I found what I'd done wrong - all within the first 65 miles or so - and I did all of those repairs in the freshly-powdercoated frame. So it can be done if done right.

 

[wentwest]

IF the adjusting screw and its locknut are oily, and if there is oil around the head of the attaching screw at the point below the adjusting screw it is possible that the leak is coming from the o-ring that (I think) is accessible behind the locknut. Wait until someone who knows better logs in to confirm the o-ring is where I think it is. If it is, then you can replace it without too much exposure to disaster. I did do that on my 450, and it did work, and I'm pretty sure I did it without removing the bearing (bushing) plate.

 

[ancientdad]

IF the adjusting screw and its locknut are oily, and if there is oil around the head of the attaching screw at the point below the adjusting screw it is possible that the leak is coming from the o-ring that (I think) is accessible behind the locknut. Wait until someone who knows better logs in to confirm the o-ring is where I think it is. If it is, then you can replace it without too much exposure to disaster. I did do that on my 450, and it did work, and I'm pretty sure I did it without removing the bearing (bushing) plate.

Unfortunately the o-ring is behind the cam bearing, it sits on the follower shaft between the bearing cover and the head. Note #16 directly on the shaft for the follower

 

[ancientdad]

Thanks Ancientdad,

I trust my situational engineering skills, but the fact that I drove the engine five hours to have it rebuilt by a professional probably says more about my overall skills. I will reach out to him. The price of a few tanks of gas is probably a small price to pay for piece of mind.

Here is another view of what you have to help you understand the components better, and the disassembly/reassembly challenges.

 

[Flight Risk]

OK, I have called my guy in Toronto to see if there is any warranty, so no more thoughts of replacing the cam cover for now.

I decided to take another look at the spark today because gas and air seem to be fine.

Now, remember when I said that it likely ran out of fuel when it last was running. I think that I was wrong. I think that was when it stopped getting any spark. The plugs are fouled from gas and there is no more spark on either side. I will have to get the electrical testers out tomorrow, but since it is on both sides I am guessing "Condenser", as both coils going at once seems unlikely.

 

[jensen]

Are you sure that the intake cam has enough axial movement ? When this is not the case, the cam pushes the cover outward, resulting in damaging the cover, burning the spacer, if mounted (number 5 in the exploded view posted by AD), and a possible oil leak. Where does the oil come out ? In the picture It seems that the oil comes out of the lower screw, this screw is wet, the rest of the screws are dry. With other words, are you sure that the gasket is the issue ? Or is the adjuster O-ring (number 16 in that same exploded view) damaged and runs the oil from that point and partly stays on top of that screw ?

 

[Flight Risk]

Are you sure that the intake cam has enough axial movement ? When this is not the case, the cam pushes the cover outward, resulting in damaging the cover, burning the spacer, if mounted (number 5 in the exploded view posted by AD), and a possible oil leak. Where does the oil come out ? In the picture It seems that the oil comes out of the lower screw, this screw is wet, the rest of the screws are dry. With other words, are you sure that the gasket is the issue ? Or is the adjuster O-ring (number 16 in that same exploded view) damaged and runs the oil from that point and partly stays on top of that screw ?

Thanks @jensen. I have no idea about the axial movement of the cam because I had the head professionally rebuilt. The oil seems to come out behind the gasket not through the bolt holes. The oil-colour in the photo, by the bottom screw on the cover, is just a reflection.

When I run a Q-Tip around the gasket (front and back), I cannot find oil until I get the the bottom and only behind. When I push it in behind the gasket from the intake side, the top of the cotton gets oil from the gasket back and possibly the bolt itself. The noob in me says "Maybe that screw isn't tight enough", but I'm sure it is...

 

[Flight Risk]

The noob won, but I tried to stop him.

I went down and took my manual impact driver to the screws. The bottom one moved significantly, and the one on the right moved some. the one on the left in the photo was jammed right in (the top one not in the image also had very little movement). I loosened them all and re-torqued in a star pattern. Will let you all know if that fixes that issue. Now on to the points...

 

[Flight Risk]

Did I mention "professionally done"? Today was the first time that I opened the points cover because I was getting spark and did I mention that it ran.



Please let me know if I'm wrong, but should I not see the end of a bolt in the middle of the shaft between the points? Nothing fell out when I took the cover off. the inner shaft is spinning, but the outer one stays still and there is no movement in the points themselves (except a slight side to side, so the cam may have a slight bit of warping at this end.

I'm not sure how to fix this...

 

[ancientdad]

I can tell you right now, just based on this picture, that your 'professional' mechanic is not the pro he touts himself to be. Not only the obvious bolt missing that holds the advancer on the shaft, and it's not a standard bolt (but in this case, not that important) but the flat washer that should be on the bolt is - it's a properly-sized hardened washer, black in color. But he not only forgot to put the bolt and washer in the advancer, he also used an exterior lock nut for the valve adjustment (eccentric follower) shaft inside the points cover, it should be just a standard nut used there.

 

[ancientdad]

...the inner shaft is spinning, but the outer one stays still and there is no movement in the points themselves (except a slight side to side, so the cam may have a slight bit of warping at this end.

I have to assume when you say "spinning" you mean while using the electric starter, because it isn't going to run like that and if it does, not for very long until the advancer moves outward off the locating pin and the engine shuts off. 'Warping' on the points shaft pressed into the exhaust cam is not likely, so you'll want to pull the points plate and advancer off and then turn the engine over with the starter to watch the camshaft. If the entire end of the camshaft deflects from side to side at all, there is excess wear on the cam bearing and you have more work to do.

 

[jensen]

Sometimes I wish the distances where not that long, my hands are itching looking at these pictures. Looking at the screws, your professional is a butcher. Even if the screws looked like this in the first place, one can easily make them nice again, by using a file, a hammer and a JIS bit.

Take the screw out, take a file and smooth the top, then put the screw in a vice with soft jaws, put the JIS bit in, give the bit a blow with the hammer, keeling the bit straight. Use the file again to soften the top. You will be amazed how these screws clean up !

 

[ancientdad]

Sometimes I wish the distances where not that long, my hands are itching looking at these pictures.

I feel the same way, which is why I get frustrated when many more words are used than pictures to describe a problem I want to help with.

 

[jensen]

I feel the same way, which is why I get frustrated when many more words are used than pictures to describe a problem I want to help with.

Indeed, get the engine out, take the valve covers off, measure the axial clearance, calculate the thickness of the gasket you need, buy some gasket material, cut the gasket, remove the camchain tensioner, find the sweets spot where the chain has slack around the intake cam, take the camshaft-covers off, replace the gasket(s), put everything back. find the sweet spot for the exhaust camshaft-chain slack, take the covers off, check the cam for damage, check the cam bearing for damage, and go from there.

It's always better to cut the camchain, at rivet afterwards with a new rivet.

 

[Flight Risk]

Update: I still have not got it running acceptably, and in fact I have not had it running at all since it was running too fast and died two days ago.

I went to Bill Lane's carb setup document and found that I had everything set up appropriately except for the air/fuel mixture which was three full turns out (from a video) and I adjusted that in to 3/4 of a turn as per Bill Lane.

I tried several times to get it started yesterday and twice I got what seemed like one cylinder on one stroke, but never even close to ignition.

Firstly, regarding OIL in the cylinder head: Three cheers for a leaky seal on the left side cylinder head cover. It shows that oil is getting up there!
View attachment 26375I guess that I will now have to replace that as well.

So now a question:

When I was emptying my tank, I noticed that only one fuel line flowed at any time when the petcock was turned on and it was draining into a jerry can. This made me wonder if one of the carbs was getting no gas. My first thought was to drain the bowls, which would prove that there had been gasoline inside both, but the drain bolts both face the left side of the bike, and wouldn't you know it, the exhaust pipe blocks access to it unless you have an L-shaped flathead screwdriver, which I don't... (or you take the exhaust off again )

So, in my mind, I am convinced that this is why the bowl is held in place by a lever... I can just pull the bowls.

Of course, the seals came out on both sides and putting them back in has proven a real hassle because gravity is not my friend. With a lot of effort, I got the right side in, but there is no pipe blocking access there. On the left, however, it leaks every time I think that I have it installed. One problem seems to be that the seal that came with my those guys in Houston Carb old style rebuild kit has a flaw when it comes to my old style bowl. When it leaks I generally find that one side of the seal has come out because it is too big

View attachment 26376You see, by the pilot jet, how the seal does not sit flush with the sides of the bowl top? This is because the rest of the seal is pressing out on the sides and something's got to give, so this corner gets pushed in. I was able to install this seal with no leaks when the carb was off, but it is a terrible fit when you are also balancing the bowl on your fingertips trying to align what you cannot see.

What I am trying to do, as you can see in the photo above, is to use an old carb body that I have for parts to constrain the sides of the seal, and to use Permatex Aviation sealer to stick it to the carb bowl. If this works, then I should have a sticky seal attached in a way that fits on the bowl and I hope that I can just slip it on. If this works, I know that the gasoline will eventually melt away all of the Permatex because it breaks down in alcohol.

Is this a bad idea?

I have purchased new seals, but I would rather wait and put them in next time the carbs HAVE to come off....

For anyone stuck with my bowl predicament, sticking the gasket to the bowl did not work after three tries, so I put a layer on the side of the gasket that would be facing up and then I left it overnight to tack up. I was able to stick it into the carb and it stuck well. I was even able to feel around and adjust it before I had to juggle the bowl into place. That worked the first time.

 

[Flight Risk]

I am wrestling with myself over whether I rent a trailer and take the bike to Toronto for repairs by the guy who re-built the engine. He was apologetic about the spark advance bolt and washer, and offered to send it to me, or to fix it all (both the leak an the points/advance) and make sure that it was running when it left the shop. In his defense, I took him an engine only and he rebuilt that engine. I'm not sure how he tested the points without the nut and washer, but it did run.

Toronto is warmer than here, so if I am going to test it before winter, then that may be my only option (they say snow here this week).

Will decide in the next few days.

 

[ancientdad]

I am wrestling with myself over whether I rent a trailer and take the bike to Toronto for repairs by the guy who re-built the engine. He was apologetic about the spark advance bolt and washer, and offered to send it to me, or to fix it all (both the leak an the points/advance) and make sure that it was running when it left the shop. In his defense, I took him an engine only and he rebuilt that engine. I'm not sure how he tested the points without the nut and washer, but it did run.

Toronto is warmer than here, so if I am going to test it before winter, then that may be my only option (they say snow here this week).

Will decide in the next few days.

It's a tough call. On one hand you'd like the guy to make it right, on the other hand he seems like an apologetic slacker because the problems you've discovered are among the most basic for any decent mechanic - do the job properly in the first place, and put all the parts you took off it back on it when you're putting it back together. TBH, I do not see how he could have even attempted to static time it on the bench with the advancer bolt missing, it's right the hell in front of you while you're adjusting the points. And only God knows why the left intake cam bearing gasket is leaking, could easily be more sloppy work. I might be inclined to tell him I want at least $100 refund for the trouble he caused and for the fuel costs you'd incur if you did take it back to him to make right.

If you do take it back to him, I'd make absolutely sure you get your original bolt and hardened washer back for the advancer, they're both unique.

BOLT, for CL450 SCRAMBLER 1968 K0 USA - order at CMSNL

✓Get the BOLT, ✓Manufacturercode: 90086-292-000 ✓Quality part

www.cmsnl.com

 

[Flight Risk]

The bike is running, and I was able to take it on a short ride last Saturday. Time to name and shame though...

I took the bike back to Augment Motorworks in Toronto, having had to rent a trailer and consume 2 1/2 tanks of gas to do it. I did this for two reasons... A) Had I just gotten him to send me the part that was missing, I was sure that I was guaranteed to get the wrong one (in my mind), and B) if I were to open up his work to correct it, then anything that occurred would be my problem, not his and who knew what the rest of the engine looked like inside.

I got up at 2 AM last Friday, taking a day off work, to get my bike to Toronto by the time he opened at 10.

I left the bike with them and got a call at 2PM saying the bike was fixed and they had tuned the carbs and adjusted the clutch and ridden it to test their work. They added more three-bond to the leaky seal and it does not leak any longer, and they did this to my points:



Its definitely not OEM, which I know I did have when I first went to him, but it does work. Anything that I should be aware of for this setup?.

The last thing that I will mention is that he charged me for three hours of work (despite the vast majority of what he fixed being his doing). I argued, but in the end, he has the ability to place a lien, so I just paid and decided to tell you guys all about it. When he said to me on the phone that he would make sure that it was road ready, before it left the shop, I thought that was part of the apology, but no, I was wrong, I now see it as making sure that he could show that he did extra work so that he could justify the "new" charges. I will not be using him again and I am throwing away the 6 business cards that he gave me to give to my friends.

 

[boddy]

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with your "professionals". Sounds like they are only interested in "Augmenting" their charges. Better to seek advice here and do the work yourself. There are many here that can walk you through almost any fix.

 

[ancientdad]

Its definitely not OEM, which I know I did have when I first went to him, but it does work. Anything that I should be aware of for this setup?.

I seriously doubt that allen head will clear the points cover, it's taller than the hex headed bolt and proper washer they apparently lost (or absconded with because the washer is hard to find). I hate to say it but this is why I do NOT trust anyone to work on my stuff unless it's something I just physically can't do for myself. We have a section for Vendor Experiences and if it were my situation, I'd absolutely post an ugly review on them in hopes at least some of the vintage Honda world sees it.

 

[mike in idaho]

The bike is running, and I was able to take it on a short ride last Saturday. Time to name and shame though...

I took the bike back to Augment Motorworks in Toronto, having had to rent a trailer and consume 2 1/2 tanks of gas to do it. I did this for two reasons... A) Had I just gotten him to send me the part that was missing, I was sure that I was guaranteed to get the wrong one (in my mind), and B) if I were to open up his work to correct it, then anything that occurred would be my problem, not his and who knew what the rest of the engine looked like inside.

I got up at 2 AM last Friday, taking a day off work, to get my bike to Toronto by the time he opened at 10.

I left the bike with them and got a call at 2PM saying the bike was fixed and they had tuned the carbs and adjusted the clutch and ridden it to test their work. They added more three-bond to the leaky seal and it does not leak any longer, and they did this to my points:

View attachment 26903

Its definitely not OEM, which I know I did have when I first went to him, but it does work. Anything that I should be aware of for this setup?.

The last thing that I will mention is that he charged me for three hours of work (despite the vast majority of what he fixed being his doing). I argued, but in the end, he has the ability to place a lien, so I just paid and decided to tell you guys all about it. When he said to me on the phone that he would make sure that it was road ready, before it left the shop, I thought that was part of the apology, but no, I was wrong, I now see it as making sure that he could show that he did extra work so that he could justify the "new" charges. I will not be using him again and I am throwing away the 6 business cards that he gave me to give to my friends.

It doesn't appear that you're done quite yet with that spark advancer. That smaller OD flat washer is going to allow the points cam to move in and out on the shaft causing timing changes and possibly allowing the cam to rub the backside of the points plate.

 

[jensen]

Does anyone have a spare set for TS ? If not, I have them (hardened ring plus hardened bolt), but shipping will take a while.

 

[ancientdad]

It doesn't appear that you're done quite yet with that spark advancer. That smaller OD flat washer is going to allow the points cam to move in and out on the shaft causing timing changes and possibly allowing the cam to rub the backside of the points plate.

I just noticed that the index mark on the valve adjustment for the left exhaust valve, visible in the points/advancer picture, is oriented the wrong direction as well. Those guys are hacks.

 

[Flight Risk]

I've been trying to start it again now that the snow is almost gone:

First time the idle was really high and it would stall if the fuel mixture was reduced (The hacks noticed this last fall so it was no surprise).

1. I pulled the carbs and did another rebuild. The secondary jets were not completely clear, but they were when I put them back, after running a bit of brass wire through.
2. The bike then idled beautifully but as it warmed up it seemed to flood and riding it definitely made the engine angry... rough running and wanted to quit.
3. I did not check the points because it ran so beautifully at idle (though in hindsight, maybe should have)

​

Next step: Connected a Colortune to the left spark plug and it was really rich (the plug itself was pretty fouled). Adjusted the mixture until the flame was blue at about 2000 RPM (actually not sure if that should be a higher RPM).

Next step: Connected the Colortune to the right side (same fouling on plug) and the starter shorted out again when I hit the starter button (big bang and then the starter would not stop while the key was on). I set the right side fuel mixture to 3/4 of a turn, which was where the left side had the blue at 2000.

I fixed the starter issue today. All that I can figure is that all of the wiring inside was pushing on the back side of the starter mechanism and it shorted right at the connection. I shortened the wire (Yellow/Red), which I had spliced in the last time it shorted. I was able to route it so that the assembly falls nicely into place with no pressure required. Lets hope that is the last time I ever have to do that!​

​

Tried to start it again. That beautiful idle is gone. If the choke is on it will not start, when the choke is off it will, but I have to goose the throttle to about 2000 RPMs to keep it running. With the extra gas, as the engine gets warmer it wants to stall (I believe it is flooding).

Any advice on setting these up would be greatly appreciated. I also plan to check the points. I found an OEM bolt, but had to buy the whole assembly to get it so I had better get that on.

Lastly, my cam cover is leaking again, so @ancientdad, I may ask you for your assistance.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Flight Risk]

OK, so forgetting the carb issue for now, as I want to work on the leaking intake cam bearing cover on the left side. The leak comes from the bottom of the cover, not from the cam follower adjustment nut. I have cleaned the oil off of the cooling fins three times since it was last run, so oil is pooling inside and leaking out somewhere low (I'm ruling out the o-ring on the cam follower shaft as the culprit, but I stand to be corrected by those who have done this before).



So, based on what I have read in this forum, this cover can be done if the intake cam lobes are turned away from the intake followers, thus relieving all pressure on the intake valves. In order to do this right, I have removed the tank, exhaust, airboxes, carbs, spark plugs, stator cover and intake valve cover.



I have turned the intake cam lobes away from the followers, and I can actually get movement on the follower if I reach my fingers in, so I think that I am good:



My next steps will be to:

1/ remove the locking nut on the left cam follower shaft
2/ remove the four JIS panheads that hold this on (in a star pattern)
3/ remove left intake bearing cover.
4/ measure the depth of the gasket material
5/ remove the gasket and clean both mating surfaces
6/ inspect the mating surfaces and the inside of the cam cover.
6a/ inspect the o-ring on the follower (eccentric adjuster) (Thanks @Jays100 !)
6b/ inspect the cam bearing cover for cracks (thanks again @Jays100)
7/ replace the gasket with one that is either the same or thicker (based on findings above)
8/ reinstall left intake bearing cover
9/ Intake valve adjustment....

Not doing any of this, however, until @ancientdad gives me the all clear or fills in what I missed

 

[Jays100]

There is also an o-ring seal on the eccentric adjuster. Likely that’s not the leak but ensure one is there on reassembly.

 

[Jays100]

One other think has been lurking in the deep dank recesses of my lizard brain is ensure no cracks in the cover (hopefully no one else has mentioned this). They’re thin wall castings and while not fragile, neither are they immune.

 

[Flight Risk]

One other think has been lurking in the deep dank recesses of my lizard brain is ensure no cracks in the cover (hopefully no one else has mentioned this). They’re thin wall castings and while not fragile, neither are they immune.

Will do. and thanks again. Luckily I actually have a spare because I bought an intact cylinder head on e-bay for spare parts.

 

[ancientdad]

My next steps will be to:

1/ remove the locking nut on the left cam follower shaft
2/ remove the four JIS panheads that hold this on (in a star pattern)
3/ remove left intake bearing cover.
4/ measure the depth of the gasket material
5/ remove the gasket and clean both mating surfaces
6/ inspect the mating surfaces and the inside of the cam cover.
6a/ inspect the o-ring on the follower (eccentric adjuster) (Thanks @Jays100 !)
6b/ inspect the cam bearing cover for cracks (thanks again @Jays100)
7/ replace the gasket with one that is either the same or thicker (based on findings above)
8/ reinstall left intake bearing cover
9/ Intake valve adjustment....

Not doing any of this, however, until @ancientdad gives me the all clear or fills in what I missed

I've been in my garage for the last couple hours and just saw this.

I think you're good to go, but a couple suggestions and a word of caution.

1) Push inward (toward the engine) on the valve adjuster shaft as you pull the intake cam bearing cover off to ensure the shaft does not come out with the cover. The o-ring can stick to the cover and cause it to happen sometimes. @Danager4792 had that happen to him on his first of all four gasket replacements, and while you can get the follower back in place it's obviously better if it stays where it is supposed to in the first place.

2) DO NOT, under any circumstances, rotate the engine for ANY reason. Just better to say it and be safe than to not say it and find out bad things later.

BTW, good thought on the 4 JIS panheads being removed in a star pattern but in this situation it isn't critical. And just replace the o-ring on the shaft while you're there, since it's of unknown age.

 

[Flight Risk]

Ok, may take a few days as I have to order the o-ring from Honda

Thanks Tom!

 

[ancientdad]

Ok, may take a few days as I have to order the o-ring from Honda

Thanks Tom!

I'll be here. I'll even be here a little bit every day when I'm in the mountains in just over 2 weeks.

 

[Flight Risk]

OK, I think that I found the issue...



I hated how low the gasket was protruding under the cover, and now I know why. Totally missed the opening in the gasket, and made their own inside.

There was a lot of sealant all to clean off, but the surfaces are good enough, I believe.

The stains on the mating surfaces look worse than they are, but if anyone has any advice on getting them cleaner, I'm all ears!

The o-ring looks newish to me, I don't think that it has flattened out yet. I have ordered a new one and new panheads too, so re-assembly will definitely be near the end of the week or next.

 

[Jays100]

If you have a M6x1.0 tap/die, can you chase the threads with a tap? (both male and female) with that much crud, you're helping yourself make a better seal. Oh, and only motor oil on the threads and under the screw heads, just a drop is enough.

not to open a whole debate on yes or no to lubricated threads...do what you want ... but the threads wear out faster when assembled dry and does affect tightening torque.

 

[Jays100]

finally, if you can run some "scotchbrite" on the taper where the o-ring seats against will clean that up nicely. the closeup of the o-ring shows some depressions where debris has fouled that surface. The rubber will come back, eventually but you shouldn't have any sealing problems if you clean up the surfaces.