Stuck in 1st Gear and Clutch Won't Disengage?? Very confused.

Scotty

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Mar 31, 2024
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Location
Michigan, USA
Hello, I have a good one for ya'll that I can't quite wrap my head around. I have a '72 CB350K4. I came home from an 80mi ride (with zero clutch or shifting issues) but once parked found I had a relatively large oil leak that was coating the underside of the bike (oil was still on the dipstick though, I did not run it dry). A few days later, I tried finding where the leak was coming from so I removed the LH cover that contains the clutch cable/lever to inspect those seals (nothing obvious found) and then used a hose and a soapy brush to clean the underside of the bike off. The next day, started it up and idled it for 15min to see if I could spot the leak, nothing found. So I put the LH cover back on to go for a ride and try to re-create the leak.

I'm pulling out of my driveway, go to shift into 2nd and the shifter lever rotates but the bike doesn't go into 2nd. I pull back into my driveway and try and get it into neutral but same thing, stuck in 1st gear. I can pull the clutch in at this point and it idles fine. I then remove and replace the LH side cover several times assuming I must have done something silly but can't find anything, still stuck in 1st. I put the bike on the center stand, start it up and even with the clutch lever pulled all the way in, the back wheel is under constant power like the clutch isn't disengaging. I can rotate the selector shaft seemingly normal, it can rotate down into 1st, back into the neutral spot, and then up past the neutral spot; however, the bike remains in 1st. I tried adjusting the clutch several times but it doesn't make any difference, I can adjust it to very loose to very tight to make sure I'm pushing that clutch rod all the way in but the back wheel stays powered.

So, before I dig into this unnecessarily far, I wanted to check with the experts here and see if they have any ideas or anything I can check before diving deeper. I'm at a loss, I can't figure out what taking that LH cover off and on has to do with getting stuck in gear, and can't understand what the clutch not disengaging and being stuck in 1st have to do with each other. I'm either missing something simple or this is a terrible coincidence.
 
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Did you lose the little bearing ball out of the clutch actuator? Clutch push rod will be too short to disengage the clutch without that little ball.
 
Twin Town said:
Did you lose the little bearing ball out of the clutch actuator? Clutch push rod will be too short to disengage the clutch without that little ball.
Click to expand...
Just checked, the ball bearing is still there. Maybe a dumb question but anyway that would be related to the transmission being stuck in 1st gear? Or were you just answering about the clutch part?
 
Trying to figure this out. The clutch does not have to work to shift. If you have the bike on the center stand, rear wheel off the ground, you should be able to shift to neutral. If it is not shifting, try rocking the rear wheel back and forth and the shifter should get to neutral. You can shift and drive without using the clutch, except for smooth starts from a stop. If you cannot find neutral this way, then your shift mechanism might be broken/damaged.

Clutch plates can stick together. If you cannot get the clutch to release, it may be out of adjustment, the clutch actuator rod (under the l side cover, rod sticks out through little seal. Rod is about 1/4 inch diameter.) may be bent or broken. If you pull it out, you can tell. if you can't tell, take a good picture. If the clutch plates are stuck, you may have to pull off the right side cover. The right side is where the shift pawls and clutch reside. You can disassemble the clutch cage, check the metal plates and friction plates. If they do not separate easily, that may be the clutch problem.

You may also have a bent shift fork. The shift mechanism will appear to shift, but the bent fork leaves the gear engaged.

So I would check that you can shift with engine off, rocking rear wheel by hand first, the clutch actuator rod second, Then dig into the right hand side and see what is going on.

In the past, on my CB350, I replaced a bent shift fork in a parking lot, working out of my trunk. The engine isn't crazy hard to remove from the frame, than, after draining oil of course, turn the motor upside down, and the lower half of the crankcase comes right off. If you go that far, all will be revealed. Make sure to get a engine gasket set and honda-bond or equivalent for reassembly.

As you disassenble, take notes and pictures and everyone here will try to assist.
 
I'm going to give a rogue idea. From your description, you ran the bike low on oil. I'm assuming your using motorcycle multi-weight oil, likely with wet clutch additives.
Air cooled engines run hot. Real hot. When you ran low oil, the oil got very hot, and the polymers (what gives you multi-weight) break down. The polymer package is now sticky inside the engine. Clutch plates are covered in sticky oil. As a matter of fact, the entire transmission is sticky.

I would pull the clutch plates out, both metal and friction. Clean them with degreaser like Simple Green and reinstall. Add a detergent additive like Rislone Brand to fresh oil. Start the engine and let idle till hot. Drain the oil and fill again with fresh oil.

If what I say does not work, then I would lay a wrench on the project.
 
Yep, my reply was regarding the clutch not releasing.

Since the ball is there, next step would be to adjust the actuator. If it worked before you removed the lh cover, I would guess the clutch problem to be the actuator not functioning correctly Consult the factory service manual.

Also, what do you mean by the wheel stays powered? If you are running the bike on the stand, clutch drag can cause the wheel to turn even though it is actually disengaged.
 
Check the seal for the clutch actuator rod very carefully as they tend to push out.

If you are idling the bike for anything more than a few minutes have a large fan blowing air over the engine ... lots of air.

The K5 engines had an issue with the screw on the end of the shift drum backing out .... I check all of them now no matter which model.

If you pull the right side cover and need to remove the clutch basket you will also need to remove the oil spinner, special tool, and the oil pump. Be careful with the oil pump gasket ... if it rips they are hard to come by or you will have to make your own.
 
Mydlyfkryzis said:
Trying to figure this out. The clutch does not have to work to shift. If you have the bike on the center stand, rear wheel off the ground, you should be able to shift to neutral. If it is not shifting, try rocking the rear wheel back and forth and the shifter should get to neutral. You can shift and drive without using the clutch, except for smooth starts from a stop. If you cannot find neutral this way, then your shift mechanism might be broken/damaged.

Clutch plates can stick together. If you cannot get the clutch to release, it may be out of adjustment, the clutch actuator rod (under the l side cover, rod sticks out through little seal. Rod is about 1/4 inch diameter.) may be bent or broken. If you pull it out, you can tell. if you can't tell, take a good picture. If the clutch plates are stuck, you may have to pull off the right side cover. The right side is where the shift pawls and clutch reside. You can disassemble the clutch cage, check the metal plates and friction plates. If they do not separate easily, that may be the clutch problem.

You may also have a bent shift fork. The shift mechanism will appear to shift, but the bent fork leaves the gear engaged.

So I would check that you can shift with engine off, rocking rear wheel by hand first, the clutch actuator rod second, Then dig into the right hand side and see what is going on.

In the past, on my CB350, I replaced a bent shift fork in a parking lot, working out of my trunk. The engine isn't crazy hard to remove from the frame, than, after draining oil of course, turn the motor upside down, and the lower half of the crankcase comes right off. If you go that far, all will be revealed. Make sure to get a engine gasket set and honda-bond or equivalent for reassembly.

As you disassenble, take notes and pictures and everyone here will try to assist.
Click to expand...
I have it on the center stand right now, it won't shift at all, I've moved the rear wheel back and forth and I can't get it out of 1st.

I'm thinking the clutch might not be an issue at all. It might just be some friction from the oil and maybe some sticky plates that are keeping the back wheel under power when it's up on the center stand. Not 100% sure on that.
 
Spokes said:
I'm going to give a rogue idea. From your description, you ran the bike low on oil. I'm assuming your using motorcycle multi-weight oil, likely with wet clutch additives.
Air cooled engines run hot. Real hot. When you ran low oil, the oil got very hot, and the polymers (what gives you multi-weight) break down. The polymer package is now sticky inside the engine. Clutch plates are covered in sticky oil. As a matter of fact, the entire transmission is sticky.

I would pull the clutch plates out, both metal and friction. Clean them with degreaser like Simple Green and reinstall. Add a detergent additive like Rislone Brand to fresh oil. Start the engine and let idle till hot. Drain the oil and fill again with fresh oil.

If what I say does not work, then I would lay a wrench on the project.
Click to expand...
I don't think it ran low, it still had oil on the dipstick after that ride. I use fully conventional Shell Rotella 15W-40 along with some zinc additive (it's what those guys in Houston recommends). Maybe it's worth a couple oil changes first....however, I don't see how that would cause it to be stuck in 1st gear like it is.
 
Twin Town said:
Also, what do you mean by the wheel stays powered? If you are running the bike on the stand, clutch drag can cause the wheel to turn even though it is actually disengaged.
Click to expand...
I think you might be right on this. It might just be some fluid drag causing the wheel to spin on the center stand. I did try stopping the back wheel from spinning when I had the clutch pulled in and I couldn't get it to stop...but earlier in the troubleshooting I was able to idle it with wheels down as long as the clutch is pulled in. So I got to try that again and maybe I can just rule out any clutch issues and focus on the transmission issue.
 
Boomer343 said:
Check the seal for the clutch actuator rod very carefully as they tend to push out.

If you are idling the bike for anything more than a few minutes have a large fan blowing air over the engine ... lots of air.

The K5 engines had an issue with the screw on the end of the shift drum backing out .... I check all of them now no matter which model.

If you pull the right side cover and need to remove the clutch basket you will also need to remove the oil spinner, special tool, and the oil pump. Be careful with the oil pump gasket ... if it rips they are hard to come by or you will have to make your own.
Click to expand...
Can you comment a little more on what bolt you mean? I'm not 100% when looking at the diagrams. What would happen if this bolt did back out? Would it cause you to get stuck in gear like this?
 
The clutch will not affect shifting when the engine is off and the rear wheel free to turn. You have a shifter issue. Could be a hairclip fell out, bent shift fork, the change pawl has been known to break, a spring on the mechanism may of broken. Get a right side gasket to start and check the external shifter mechanism. You should be able to move the shifter drum and shift. You can see what happens when the shift lever is moved and if the hook is catching the pin and moving it or if the drum itself is stuck. If just a shift mechanism issue, you can figure out with our help which parts you need. If the shift drum is not turning, then you may have an internal issue with the shift drum parts or the shift forks. This would require splitting the lower crank case apart.

It isn't really hard, take a lot pictures, not only for our help, but also for your reminder.

Shift Drum.JPG

Here's what it looks like after splitting the case. Green arrows are where the shift forks are.

Transmission and Crank Exposed Forks marked.jpg
 
Scotty said:
Can you comment a little more on what bolt you mean?
Click to expand...
Do you mean the 'screw' that Boomer343 was talking about? It is #23 in the parts diagram and the clutch pack has to be removed to get to it and the rest of the external shifting mechanism. This is what rotates the drum and may be where the issue lies.
 
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