Front wheel doesn't spin freely when axel is torqued.

chad

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I have been going through my new-to-me 1981 CM400T. I replaced the front tire because old rubber.

I tightened the front axle nut to 40 ft lbs and noticed the wheel did not spin freely under its own weight. I can turn the wheel by hand. I loosened the nut and then the wheel rotates easily.

I stuck a finger inside to feel the bearings. I didn't feel any play in the bearings. I noticed behind the left bearings there is something like a spacer that has a slight bit of movement. Looking at the FSM, there is a distance collar.

I wondered if whoever pressed the bearings didn't press them all the way down?

Can I try tapping them in more? Is there a size of socket that works out well for that? Do I need to remove and replace the dust covers? Do you tap from both sides or just one? The FSM looks like the wheel is just resting on a couple of boards. If I do that can I avoid taking the brake rotor off?

Thanks!

Chad1000016167.png
 
I don't know how long it's been like this. It might be best to get new bearings. 🫤
 
chad said:
I don't know how long it's been like this. It might be best to get new bearings. 🫤
Click to expand...
It might be just to be safe. Good that you checked for the spacer in between the bearings, many times when people drive out the old ones the spacer falls into the trash barrel the wheel is sitting on and they never realize it was there.
 
One of the things that is an automatic replacement for me is wheel bearings. The binding up under axle torque is an indicator the bearings aren't set properly.
Don't know a socket size, just whatever fits the outer race.
 
First. Make sure the speedo drive is completely seated.

Then make sure you have the axle spacer(s) in the correct orientation.

Then worry about the parts cannon.

Yes, you need to remove the dust shield, PVC pipe works better than a socket- you want to be tapping on the outside race.
 
I checked the little tabs on the speedo were lined up. I was worried I crushed them when tightening it. 😁 They seem okay.

Thinking about it now. The wheel wasn't spinning fully loose before I took it off.

I'm considering taking the wheel off and feeling the spacer again. Know what though, it's been too tight so who knows what happened to the bearings?

I've put 10-15 km at low speed on the bike. (Working on things and test rides.)

I should probably just order a bearings kit. I'll feel better knowing they haven't been compromised.
 
This gives you the effects of the spacer
Wheel_Bearing_Install-1


Install the second bearing with a suitable driver with the same outside diameter as the bearing. Drive the second bearing in until the inner race just touches the center spacer (See fig 1).



Wheel_Bearing_Install-2


Fully seating the second bearing may cause both bearings to become side loaded causing premature failure (See fig 2).

Wheel_Bearing_Install-3


If the center spacer is loose after the second bearing is installed, this may be a sign that the center spacer is too short and needs to be replaced or the second bearing needs to be taped in further. A lose or worn center spacer can cause the bearing to be side loaded in the opposite direction after the axle is torqued down (See fig 3).
 
Ah, the left bearings don't get pressed all the way to the shoulder! Interesting. I have only replaced conical roller bearings before so this is new to me.

So maybe on this bike it wasn't pressed in enough - figure 3.

It does look like it maybe it would be safer to press it in with a flat surface instead of the outer race only. That way you can't push the outside race too far. But I don't know.
 
I did this with the caliper hanging. I was putting the wheel with the new tire back on the axle and hadn't put the caliper on yet. I torqued the nut and spun the wheel and that's when I thought "shouldn't this spin more freely?"
 
I don't know if it was tight enough to damage the races or how long these have been in there like that. I ordered All Balls 25-1319. If there is anything interesting when I take it apart again I'll post photos.
 
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1000016221.jpg
The axle had some gunk near the right bearings (towards the inside of the hub). I cleaned it with brake cleaner and paper towel. I can still see where the bearings sat and there looks like specks of pitting but I think it's okay.
 
The bearings walked out fine. I was able to move the distance collar easily with the tip of my finger.

They move fine and I don't feel any clicking or sticky spots.

They are only sealed on one size. Koyo 6302-Z. I haven't any idea how long they've been in there. Maybe original? With 20,000 on the odometer and resistance when torqued I'd assume they wouldn't be in good shape.

Or maybe a PO replaced them with the single seal ones. 🤷‍♂️
 
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chad said:
The [old] bearings walked out fine.
[Checking them] They rotate fine - I don't feel any clicking or sticky spots.
They are only sealed on one side. I haven't any idea how long they've been in there. Maybe original? With 20,000 on the odometer and resistance when torqued I'd assume they wouldn't be in good shape.
🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
The old ones may rotate smoothly BUT there is a "worn, discard into garbage can" FSM spec if the inner race moves side-to-side beyond that FSM spec in relation to the outer race.

Reminder to install your new right-side AllBalls sealed-bearing FIRST so that its outer race meets and stops installing when it contacts and is in contact with the wheel hub.
THEN insert the center-distance collar-spacer into the hub from the left side
THEN install the left-side bearing CAREFULLY AND ONLY UNTIL ITS INNER RACE JUST CONTACTS THAT CENTER SPACER-COLLAR leaving a gap (that you will not be able to see) between the hub and outer race of the left side bearing) like shown in FIGURE 1
THEN install the wheel into forks just like FSM instructs where (if I remember correctly) you tighten with the FSM-listed torque-tightening spec the castellated castle nut on left side BEFORE installing the axle holder at bottom of right side fork with its 2 "clamping" nuts on that right side

You ordered the correct AllBalls bearing kit for your '81 CM400

So, if after this installation of the new kit, the wheel is still not rotating freely and there's resistance,
then it's most likely that either your center-distance collar-spacer or right-side spacer is incorrect from either being worn out (like from miles of incorrect install by PO) or from being sourced by a PO from a different bike with a different wheel or different forks all together, which both seem unlikely too...
 
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The left side has a bit of black gunk where the bearings sit. It almost looks like a drip of paint. I can feel it is raised with my fingernail. I was able to clean it off with carb cleaner and time rubbing it with a bit of plastic. Eventually that wasn't working so I gently rubbed it with a bit of thin copper wire. (Brake cleaner and paper towel wasn't working. I also tried a toothbrush.)

Mind you that's the left so it should be stopped by the distance collar first anyway.

1000016225.jpg
 
chad said:
View attachment 57869
The axle had some gunk near the right bearings (towards the inside of the hub). I cleaned it with brake cleaner and paper towel. I can still see where the bearings sat and there looks like specks of pitting but I think it's okay.
Click to expand...
Did you happen to roll that axle across a flat surface, to verify it being straight?
 
Boosted said:
The old ones may rotate smoothly BUT there is a "worn, discard into garbage can" FSM spec if the inner race moves side-to-side beyond that FSM spec in relation to the outer race.
Click to expand...
There is side to side play in the old ones - but I did hammer them out and don't remember how much was there before.

New ones are in. I don't feel any side to side play. It spins nicely now.
 
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