Compiling a final to-do list on the bike before insuring, would like your help.

TomatoThePotato

TomatoThePotato

Veteran Member
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Dec 1, 2023
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Location
Ontario Canada
I have a feeling that this may turn into a long thread since I'll add to it constantly so I'll just provide some very quick background info. You can skip this paragraph below if you want to go straight to the to-do list.

I have been working on a 1984 Honda CM450E since last year June. I am 20 years old and it is my first-ever motorcycle. I am studying automotive engineering and I enjoyed working on my friend's project cars so I bought this project so I can finally learn to wrench on things myself. When I bought the motorcycle, it had 60,000 km on it, and I don't know much about the history of it, but I am assuming it sat for 20 years as I have found that the last time the bike was insured was in the early 2000s. Before I bought it, the bike was running, idling well, and started on the first crank, and all these things I mentioned, it still does today. I live in Ontario, Canada, where insurance is mandatory, and for motorcycles, I must pay for the whole year for insurance. I have a car so this bike is in no way my only form of transportation, so it being out of service for a week or two isn't that big of a deal to me, however, I want to make sure I won't have any hiccups or problems that could potentially cause my bike to be out month(s). This will be mostly just a weekend bike to enjoy the twisties, maybe some longer distances drive, and going to work here and there.

Now, I have come here to ask, do you guys think I have missed any critical steps, or should add things to the list to ensure that this bike will be reliable and not get me stranded?
Note: I have replaced every part that I needed to replace with OEM spec replacement parts or aftermarket parts that are as close to stock as possible. I did not change the jetting on the carbs and cleaned and reused the old ones following LDRs guide. The only thing I plan on changing from stock on this bike are the handlebars so I will change the cables as well.

So far, I have done the following

- Replaced tires
- Replaced both front and rear drum brakes (servicing the drums themselves as well)
- Replaced both sprockets + chain
- Changed Oil and Oil filter (no sparkles in oil)
- Changed Fuel filter (will change again due to being the incorrect one)
- Changed Air filter
- Rebuilt carbs (following LDRs guide)
- Adjusted valves
- Adjusted cam chain tension

What I have left to do (not in order)
- Compression test (I know, I should've done this first)
- Sparkplugs (replacing it while compression testing)
- Clean rust in the fuel tank
- Maybe a leakdown test?

What I haven't serviced yet, however not sure if I need to

- Fork seals (I remember checking when I first bought the bike and rubbed my finger across it and didn't notice any grime/oil, haven't checked properly since then)
- Wheel bearings (haven't fully tested to see if there are any issues with it, however did not run into any handling issues or characteristics and I have gotten the bike up to 100km/h, in a closed area of course).
- Clutch (no signs of a slipping clutch)
- Balancer chain tension (manual says to adjust every 19,000 km, wanted to get your guys' thoughts on this process on how this process is - looks a little intimidating, but will still do it).

I don't think I am forgetting any important info, but if I am, I will update this.

Thank you everyone for the support and the constant help over the last few months, would not have made it to this point if it wasn't for this community.
 
Control cable inspection and lube.

My bikes were considerably older. But I cleaned and repacked the swingarm bushings. It’s likely been forever since it was last done. Same for steering bearings (though again, old, so replaced mine). These two are a lot of work. So others might have a stronger opinion about just lubing if there are external fittings for that.

Signals and lights work? I like to keep spares handy. Frustrating when a bulb goes out and I have to locate one. Same for fuses.

Just all around fastener inspection and tightness check.

Battery charging ok? Might not notice on short rides.

Did you change fork oil? Mine was pretty rancid.

Does that bike have a box for basic tools? More than once I’ve gone out and didn’t like the feel of something and adjusted on the road. Like brakes.

Have a backup plan for how you will retrieve the bike if it breaks down far away.
 
I saw you replaced the tires , the tires on my 69 S90 were fine but the rear tube blew out st 25 mph and I limped home , now it has new tires new protective straps over the inside of the rims and new tubes. I’ll aired up correctly. So… tubes ??
 
I think I’d ride it around the block quite a few times , close enough to push it home before I went “ out “ with it .
 
teebo said:
Control cable inspection and lube.

My bikes were considerably older. But I cleaned and repacked the swingarm bushings. It’s likely been forever since it was last done. Same for steering bearings (though again, old, so replaced mine). These two are a lot of work. So others might have a stronger opinion about just lubing if there are external fittings for that.

Signals and lights work? I like to keep spares handy. Frustrating when a bulb goes out and I have to locate one. Same for fuses.

Just all around fastener inspection and tightness check.

Battery charging ok? Might not notice on short rides.

Did you change fork oil? Mine was pretty rancid.

Does that bike have a box for basic tools? More than once I’ve gone out and didn’t like the feel of something and adjusted on the road. Like brakes.

Have a backup plan for how you will retrieve the bike if it breaks down far away.
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I havent noticed anything bad from the steering bearing. Like it doesn’t catch on or struggle when I move the handlebars, though I would not mind greasing if I had to.

Signal and lights work perfectly, indicators go off when needed to, one does have a crack covering so will be replacing that before i get a mechanic to look at it before I safety the bike.

Battery, needs replacing, (forgot to mention that). Been jumpstarting it everytime I needed to turn it on ever since I have done carbs. Looking to do this near the riding season when I will be riding this bike much more than I do now.

I did not change fork oil, how is the overall process for that? Some things I have thought about was certain things that need to be fixed, I’ll get a mechanic to fix once I can drive the bike to them as I don’t have a pickup truck or know anyone that can help me drop it there. This might be part of that list but if it is doable, I may do it myself as i would like to learn.

Still has all the original tools that came with the bikes that fit right under the seat.

I’m considering getting some road side assistance service just in case.
 
Johnnydarkgt350 said:
I think I’d ride it around the block quite a few times , close enough to push it home before I went “ out “ with it .
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Yes, tubes and tires have been replaced and balanced as well. All by a shop, I didn’t have the tools for it and did not want to risk it as it was one of the very first things I did to the bike.
 
Lube whatever can be. The lube in various places on mine had the consistency of peanut butter bubble gum.

Roadside assistance isn’t a bad idea. These days ride-share is available in a lot of places. But someone who can come pick the bike up is huge.

My buddy had a plan. It went like this: we rode someplace and his tank sprung a leak. I rode home. Fitted a 100 lb bike carrier on the truck. Picked up his bike. Repaired it.

Does anyone notice the flaws in that plan?
 
teebo said:
Lube whatever can be. The lube in various places on mine had the consistency of peanut butter bubble gum.

Roadside assistance isn’t a bad idea. These days ride-share is available in a lot of places. But someone who can come pick the bike up is huge.

My buddy had a plan. It went like this: we rode someplace and his tank sprung a leak. I rode home. Fitted a 100 lb bike carrier on the truck. Picked up his bike. Repaired it.

Does anyone notice the flaws in that plan?
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I’ve lubed the chain, front and rear axels, and soon the cables as well. If there are more things I am forgetting to lube, please let me know!! For now, I’ll be referencing the manual.

Honestly, I’ve really considered selling my car and buying a pick up like a ford ranger or a mazda 3000 or something. This project has been fun and I definitely see myself getting another bike in the future. A Suzuki SV650 is something I’ve had my eye on for a bit 👀
 
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Two questions since your in Ontario and younger. If you not a longer time licensed motorcycle M class rider, have you been quoted insurance for the bike?
Have you checked that the bike charges when running with a VOM meter set on 12VDC? If your battery is pooched now it may not register properly. You want around 12.5 VDC at idle and it is sometimes a little less and around 13.5 - 14VDC at around 3-4 K RPM.
These bikes don’t charge at idle and you need to be riding to get into the charge zone. When you buy a battery get a AGM style and not the older acid flooded type if you can. The AGM is a stronger battery that holds its charge better when sitting for longer periods of time.
Royal Distributing has free shipping over $49 and I bought 3 Wolftech AGM batteries on sale last year from them on their no tax weekend for around $70 each which was a deal.

On another note the Suzuki SV650 is a highly regarded bike that has been well reviewed for years. Your no longer a vintage bike rider, yet modern brakes and handling with better electrical and fuel injection.
 
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At 60K Km, hopefully the balance chain has been done but that needs to be checked. It's actually not that hard to do.
 
Flyin900 said:
These bikes don’t charge at idle and you need to be riding to get into the charge zone.
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Remember his bike has factory CDI and will run without the battery, so the electric start and brightness of the lights is all that's suffering at this point with his old battery. Obviously he'll need a new one to fully pass any inspection, but it currently won't have any effect on the way it runs at least.

And yes, investing in an AGM battery is the best choice.
 
Flyin900 said:
Two questions since your in Ontario and younger. If you not a longer time licensed motorcycle M class rider, have you been quoted insurance for the bike?
Have you checked that the bike charges when running with a VOM meter set on 12VDC? If your battery is pooched now it may not register properly. You want around 12.5 VDC at idle and it is sometimes a little less and around 13.5 - 14VDC at around 3-4 K RPM.
These bikes don’t charge at idle and you need to be riding to get into the charge zone. When you buy a battery get a AGM style and not the older acid flooded type if you can. The AGM is a stronger battery that holds its charge better when sitting for longer periods of time.
Royal Distributing has free shipping over $49 and I bought 3 Wolftech AGM batteries on sale last year from them on their no tax weekend for around $70 each which was a deal.

On another note the Suzuki SV650 is a highly regarded bike that has been well reviewed for years. Your no longer a vintage bike rider, yet modern brakes and handling with better electrical and fuel injection.
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So before I had put any large sum into the bike, I had got some insurance quotes beforehand. Was quoted $2000 a year from Desjardins for basic coverage, which was the best quote I have gotten so far. My M2 expires next year so one of my goals this year was to get my full M. I called them recently again to see if the quote has changed and it is still the same.


The battery does hold charge for the time it had a new battery. When I bought the bike, the only change the previous owner had done recently was a new battery and it held its charge. I will look into getting an AGM battery. Is it just a direct swap or is there anything I should modify beforehand?
 
TomatoThePotato said:
Is it just a direct swap or is there anything I should modify beforehand?
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Manufacturers make exact replacement AGMs for most of our bikes, just botl in like the original. And they last at least 2 to 3 times longer, often as much as 5 times longer than the original flooded lead-acid battery.
 
TomatoThePotato said:
So before I had put any large sum into the bike, I had got some insurance quotes beforehand. Was quoted $2000 a year from Desjardins for basic coverage, which was the best quote I have gotten so far. My M2 expires next year so one of my goals this year was to get my full M. I called them recently again to see if the quote has changed and it is still the same.
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Glad to hear you at least checked the insurance cost out first, since Ontario can be silly expensive for riders. You can usually only get basic coverage for a vintage bike unless your insurance company insures vintage bikes as a category. My broker NFP which uses Aviva as the insurance company does offer vintage insurance. The catch is you need an appraisal at around $175. as an average cost for the appraisal.

The advantage is it is good for 5+ years and really reduces the premium. The added bonus is you get full coverage for liability, fire and theft and collision , plus an agreed appraisal value payout if a claim is required.

Worth checking out if available to you, as I pay an average of about $400-500 per bike with 3 bikes insured. I am old as dirt though and licenced for 60+ years as a M category licence.
 
Flyin900 said:
Glad to hear you at least checked the insurance cost out first, since Ontario can be silly expensive for riders. You can usually only get basic coverage for a vintage bike unless your insurance company insures vintage bikes as a category. My broker NFP which uses Aviva as the insurance company does offer vintage insurance. The catch is you need an appraisal at around $175. as an average cost for the appraisal.

The advantage is it is good for 5+ years and really reduces the premium. The added bonus is you get full coverage for liability, fire and theft and collision , plus an agreed appraisal value payout if a claim is required.

Worth checking out if available to you, as I pay an average of about $400-500 per bike with 3 bikes insured. I am old as dirt though and licenced for 60+ years as a M category licence.
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Interesting, I actually may consider this depending on how much the premiums drop. However, I remember checking with a few companies and I don’t remember if Aviva was one of them but I know a lot of companies here in Ontario dont insure riders that are under 25. I found Desjardin (and I think TD?) Also, can we please talk about the god awful premiums here in Ontario 😭😭 I remember when I was looking to buy a Ninja 250, they were charging me $8000 a year. Of course I was an eager highschool kid. I think this CM450 will be the best chance I’ll have to be able to ride bike this early in Ontario.
 
TomatoThePotato said:
Also, can we please talk about the god awful premiums here in Ontario 😭😭 I remember when I was looking to buy a Ninja 250, they were charging me $8000 a year.
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Wow. I know it's always more expensive to insure younger people but that's unbelievable. I guess I should shut up about my homeowner's insurance here in hurricane-riddled Florida then, because that quote is ridiculous and over 3 times what we pay to insure our house and detached garage per year even with the $1000 increase we've suffered in the ;last 2 years.
 
Alright so I did a compression test today. Some people on this forum had recommended a compression tester from Innova. I had gotten a compression tester from Canadian Tire for $50. Innova 3612. Did compression test on a warm engine.

Took it for a spin before hand, so engine was warm, I had my jumper cables connected to my cars battery to ensure that the starter has all the power it needs.

Now I got good news and bad news. Good news is I have equal compression on both cylinders. Bad news. 110 psi on the left, 115 on the right. Poured a tsp of oil down the cylinder walls, psi went 115 on the left, 125 on the right. Manual said 185 is factory spec, but I know people get by with 150, but 120 psi?? What could I check to see the issue could be? Again, somewhat equal compression, so I’m thinking its not a valve issue or piston rings, but I want yalls opinion.



I was not expecting this low compression though. The engine never gave me any major issues before and starts on first few cranks when the choke was pulled. The bike leaks a bit of oil but I haven’t had issues where it burnt any oil. No smoke comes out from the exhaust after it is warmed up. What could be the issue?
 
Sitting! If you haven't ridden the bike for at least 100 klicks then wait until you get some seat time once it is on the road. Numbers are low and they may improve with some running time. If not I would just ride it if it performs decently, as a teardown likely isn't worth you while and adds to the cost of a bike that has limited value in the resale market in Ontario.

If your under 25 that is an issue for insurance and Aviva probably won't be your option for either regular or vintage insurance.
 
GUYS IM AN IDIOT.

I forgot to crank the throttle while doing the compression test. I gave myself a heart attack way too early in my life. Newbie mistakes. I did another compression test with WOT and I got 165 psi on both cylinders. I know it’s not in factory spec, but it being 60k km and 40 years old, I assume 165 is good psi to rely on? What are yall thoughts?
 
ancientdad said:
Wow. I know it's always more expensive to insure younger people but that's unbelievable. I guess I should shut up about my homeowner's insurance here in hurricane-riddled Florida then, because that quote is ridiculous and over 3 times what we pay to insure our house and detached garage per year even with the $1000 increase we've suffered in the ;last 2 years.
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AD many are being charged crazy numbers for insurance. I believe the insurance industry really wants out of the bike business all together. Hagerty offers classic car insurance up here, yet has never ventured into bike insurance in Canada.

As I have noted before on this forum the insurance companies rule the roost. They decide if you going to get insurance and if you have an age issue (ie young) or any driving infractions (ie cage) better be ready for eye popping numbers.

I posted a year plus ago about a CVMG member (in his mid 60's with years of experience) who's modern Ducati went berserk with a known software issue on Ducati forums, where the computer reset on him entering an intersection and it went to wide open throttle. Drive by wire system! He crashed, broke various shoulder and arm bones and faces a $10K insurance premium now, so he has switched to dirt riding. Oh and his insurance company told him he was uninsurable again with them.

A 16 year old CVMG family member was quoted $12K which I understand he is a high risk driver, but at $12K they are just saying...GO AWAY!
 
TomatoThePotato said:
GUYS IM AN IDIOT.

I forgot to crank the throttle while doing the compression test. I gave myself a heart attack way too early in my life. Newbie mistakes. I did another compression test with WOT and I got 165 psi on both cylinders. I know it’s not in factory spec, but it being 60k km and 40 years old, I assume 165 is good psi to rely on? What are yall thoughts?
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Well that's more like it! Totally serviceable, ride it and enjoy.
 
ancientdad said:
Well that's more like it! Totally serviceable, ride it and enjoy.
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Very much happy about these results. Knock on wood but I hope no need for engine rebuild for at least a year. Was worried due to its old age and somewhat high mileage, but all looks good for now 😎CD4C0B68-827D-4DA2-9D8F-4D7446012836.jpegAC830A66-FD4D-4A5E-B5BB-31E46AEDA4C0.jpeg
 
LongDistanceRider said:
Good deal. I was about to write that the compression tester was junk because at 115 the engine would likely not even start and if it did it would only be after very long cranking.
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Yep! Now, that I know engine is healthy, I think I am contemplating on looking into the balancer chain since I am not sure when it was last adjusted. I haven’t had anyone else mention any important factors aside from the ones I have above. If there isn’t anything, I am hoping to insure the bike this coming June 😌
 
TomatoThePotato said:
I am hoping to insure the bike this coming June 😌
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I'm happy for you, but also feel for you with required insurance and those high rates because of your age. It was obviously a different time, but the insurance on my early bikes when I got started riding and was around your age (a little younger, actually) was stupid cheap, like an extra $20 or so per 6 months on my parents' auto insurance. Currently in Florida we aren't required to have insurance on bikes, which saves me a ton of money. I guess the state views it as car drivers are usually the ones at fault. I suspect that will change in the near future with so many sport bike riders going well over the speed limit almost anywhere anymore, and the crashes that can result from it are often deadly (at least around my area anyway) and seem to be the rider's fault most of the time due to excess speed.
 
ancientdad said:
I'm happy for you, but also feel for you with required insurance and those high rates because of your age. It was obviously a different time, but the insurance on my early bikes when I got started riding and was around your age (a little younger, actually) was stupid cheap, like an extra $20 or so per 6 months on my parents' auto insurance. Currently in Florida we aren't required to have insurance on bikes, which saves me a ton of money. I guess the state views it as car drivers are usually the ones at fault. I suspect that will change in the near future with so many sport bike riders going well over the speed limit almost anywhere anymore, and the crashes that can result from it are often deadly (at least around my area anyway) and seem to be the rider's fault most of the time due to excess speed.
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Not having insurance AND knowing that they’ll still assume that the driver is usually at fault? Sounds like a dream to live in. I really wish insurance was cheap here like that. It’s not only just because its Canadian insurance, but also because of the city I live in. Flyin900 might understand where I am coming from, but I live in a city called Brampton, and it is known for their terrible drivers and high insurance rate. My insurance rate for my 2009 Elantra is already $3000 a year and that’s under my parents plan so its really dumb here. I got lucky with my $2000 year for the CM450E. I spoke with a few friends and they said that if you hold onto this bike for a year or two with insurance, the rate will begin to drop a lot more.
 
TomatoThePotato said:
Not having insurance AND knowing that they’ll still assume that the driver is usually at fault? Sounds like a dream to live in.
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I think the trend here is changing and they really don't always think the car driver is at fault, but over the years here the majority of the bike accidents I've seen involved being cut off or pulled in front of and we have a higher number of seniors and snowbirds (local definition for those who have a second home here but live up north) so that probably has something to do with it since most can't judge a bike's speed very well. As for the dream... check back during hurricane season, when one minute you're watching the weather and the next minute you could watch your roof lift off and go elsewhere. And the long hot summers when the sweat doesn't dry even while riding. If I wasn't the age I am I'd consider moving elsewhere after 63 years here.
 
ancientdad said:
I think the trend here is changing and they really don't always think the car driver is at fault, but over the years here the majority of the bike accidents I've seen involved being cut off or pulled in front of and we have a higher number of seniors and snowbirds (local definition for those who have a second home here but live up north) so that probably has something to do with it since most can't judge a bike's speed very well. As for the dream... check back during hurricane season, when one minute you're watching the weather and the next minute you could watch your roof lift off and go elsewhere. And the long hot summers when the sweat doesn't dry even while riding. If I wasn't the age I am I'd consider moving elsewhere after 63 years here.
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Oh yes, i forgot, this is florida we are talking about. Swampy, alligators, and hurricanes. Yeah, maybe not lol.
 
ancientdad said:
I'm happy for you, but also feel for you with required insurance and those high rates because of your age. It was obviously a different time, but the insurance on my early bikes when I got started riding and was around your age (a little younger, actually) was stupid cheap, like an extra $20 or so per 6 months on my parents' auto insurance. Currently in Florida we aren't required to have insurance on bikes, which saves me a ton of money. I guess the state views it as car drivers are usually the ones at fault. I suspect that will change in the near future with so many sport bike riders going well over the speed limit almost anywhere anymore, and the crashes that can result from it are often deadly (at least around my area anyway) and seem to be the rider's fault most of the time due to excess speed.
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With no insurance requirements what happens when a bike rider hits a car or pedestrian and does serious injury? I dislike our system immensely, because of the costs and loopholes that insurance companies can use if needed. Yet no insurance seems kind of scary if the rider causing an accident has to be pursued in a private claim and has no assets.

Speaking of snowbirds a fellow who I knew years ago has a winter residence in Florida. He was involved in a low speed accident where a senior pull out in from of him and he hit the car T bone around the front wheel area on the car. He was thrown over the handlebars and cartwheeled to land upright on the other side of the vehicle in a running position. He was not injured at all, yet his Harley sustained a bit of front wheel/fork damage.
Kind of sounds like a urban legend as told by him about the details, yet no one was injured other than some bike damage that was repaired.
 
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TomatoThePotato said:
GUYS, I'M AN IDIOT...
I forgot to open the throttle while doing the compression test. Newbie mistakes. I did another compression test with WOT and got 165 psi on both cylinders. I know it’s not in factory spec, but it having 60,000km and being 40 years old, I assume 165 is good psi to rely on? What are your thoughts?
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I got 30 additional psi measurement on both cyls when using the short pipe with my Innova gauge compared to when I used the 18" long hose with the same gauge.

Balancer chain tightness check is easy. There's a coin-sized cover plugging the access port on the big right-side (clutch) cover to loosen the clamping nut on the rotatable quadrant used to snug the chain. See the threads in the SOHC 400/450 sub-forum on "Balancer Chain/Adjustment" for more details
 
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