Comments for the unwashed masses...

[73Goblin]

Perhaps I'm alone in this, nevertheless, I thought I'd share my neurosis with VHT at large.

I'm constantly poking about online and finding ancient, neglected, almost ABUSED vintage twins and... it honestly turns my stomach. I mean, why did you leave that historical wonder out in the pasture, the side yard, the lot, the "wherever" for YEARS instead of just unloading it for another interested party who would cherish the opportunity to revive a piece of history to a - nearly - showroom state?

I find sooooo many vintage Hondas that deserve sooooo much better than to rot on someone's side yard. However, there it is! On FB Marketplace. A nightmarish rust bucket that's completely seized with all leather/rubber decaying. Somebody's brother's cousin is trying to unload it on 'bring a trailer'.

Admittedly, I didn't grow up with much in the Midwest USA. So to see things that could otherwise bring people joy instead absolutely ROTTING for no other reason than someone didn't take the time to unload it for somebody else who would love to own it, to rebuild it, to put it into their collection is, well... a bit disheartening.

I suppose the only saving grace there is that those of us who 'know better' are able to collect these unfortunate souls for a song instead of a bank account. I spent $200 on my CB160. I suppose I shouldn't ******* too loudly as it was probably worth at least 5x that much.

Nevertheless...

Apologies for the rant. I'm stepping down from my soap box. Go drink some bourbon. Carry on.

 

[Tony Clifton]

You are poking the bear that I attribute to mainstream psychological factors

I often rage, "Now? Now, after letting this thing rust in the rain and sink slowly into the earth for twenty-odd years, now you decide it suddenly has value?"

To your point, the general public has no way of knowing how to own/maintain vintage motorcycles so there are bargains to be had for the discerning enthusiast

 

[CarnivorousChicken]

Living in Mexico (and in times past Indonesia) has given me a little different perspective. It is only in the US (and maybe a few other places) where someone could buy a motorcycle in 1972 as secondary transportation after a car, ride it around for a year or two or five or ten, then decide that selling it for a few hundred dollars is too much of a hassle (or that maybe they will come back to it at some point). So they park it in the corner of a shed or under a tarp in the backyard (or... not under a tarp) and let it sit for years until it decays -- long before it was considered a "historical artifact" because in 1982 nobody wanted an out-of-date 1975 Honda (and think of the radical changes in design that were occurring then and the subsequent years). Here and in most other places a bike that was bought in 1972 was ridden into the ground, frequently as primary transportation (and they were almost all small-displacement singles and twins). If they owner couldn't ride it, it was sold to someone else who would ride it into the ground. There are very, very few old bikes here or in Indonesia or in a lot of other places. My 550F and 350F here I brought from the USA and after years I finally met someone last week who has a 550F (and his brother a CBX) after he saw mine and approached me, but I don't see old bikes around at all. There are still a ton of '60s and '70s Hondas out there in the USA that were parked in a shed or basement that keep popping up, as well as bikes reduced to piles of rust and decayed rubber and plastic, but not so much in other places.

 

[ferrisbueller]

Yup, disposable society now. Everything has planned obsolescence. I have many old tractors that I use on the farm. Oldest from 1950. They keep on keeping on. I have newer equipment too, but I know it won't last as long as the older stuff, it is up to us to make the next generations appreciate good quality simple things. As @CarnivorousChicken says, we should be grateful that there are bikes out here that are rebuild able and neglected. As opposed to completely worn out, the last bit of life used out of them.

 

[Spokes]

I've been pondering as to how to submit my thoughts about bikes & cars, amongst other "vintage" items found out in the elements or in sheds & barns.

Yup, disposable society now. Everything has planned obsolescence.

USA was king of manufacturing after WW2. New cars depreciated to near zero in 5 years as new models were introduced yearly. Disposable? You bet! Japanese bikes and products began to flow into the USA slowly beginning around 1955. By 1965, our now "vintage Hondas" were even more disposable than American machines. One month wage bought a new CA95 in 65. (I bought my 1st Honda CA95 a 1965, during 1965 from a draftee for $250.00. I could not keep it as I was 13 years old and my father thought bringing a Japanese anything into his home was blasphemous). A Honda 50 cub sold for $215. The disposable Honda's were left behind once jobs and responsibilities took center stage. Sometimes, new motorcyclists met their end on their bikes as well. My point is that the old Honda, like my 62 CA95, was indeed kept inside some barn or shed since 1966. Its engine probably revved to max, just for kicks to see how long the engine would last before it seized or threw a rod. In the late 60's I was buying cars in good condition (highly collectable today) for $25 & $50 just to have demolition derby's on property owned by friends.
Some folks honed their mechanical skills on near worthless vehicles. Afterward, the bikes were thrown in back of a shed or business and forgotten about.

Unlike yesteryear, we have dedicated forums like this one that bring together those who value the simplicity of machines. Perhaps us oldies (speaking strictly for myself) now armed with the wisdom from memories of the past to realize the beauty of what we once took for granted and perhaps maybe (again strictly speaking for myself) take on an abused bike, car, lathe, tractor, instrument and the like and put the pieces back together as if patching the abuse we once inflicted upon the very item we now restore.

For me, restoration is a healing act.

 

[ancientdad]

USA was king of manufacturing after WW2. New cars depreciated to near zero in 5 years as new models were introduced yearly. Disposable? You bet!

Interesting, though, that so many of the cars and trucks from that era are still around and many are highly sought-after, while the Japanese bikes that the US originally looked at as either "junk" or disposable due to cost are also still around and many now highly sought-after too.

To me, the best point about today's offerings was made recently by a younger guy in a video posted (here IIRC) who rightfully pointed out what many of us have been thinking for the last couple decades - how useless all these current electronic-laden vehicles will be in the next 10 to 20 years, there will be junkyards full of them and no one interested in attempting to revive them due to all the electronic complexity and the failings associated with it.

 

[Flyin900]

I like what CC wrote in his post #3 as a good explanation in part. The truth for me is on this forum the most restored bike is the CB350 twin it seems. Likely a combination of the number produced of that best seller from Honda, especially in the USA. Plus the skill level of many forum members who are newer to riding and restoration based on the postings.

In Britain VHT members seem to gravitate to the smaller twins (ie) 175 and 200cc or slightly larger. A guess here is the smaller towns bunched closer together make riding a small displacement bike safe and realistic, plus the cost factor in buying and licencing a large displacement bike may discourage riders.
I have never seen an older 60's Japanese bike been ridden on any rides I do around this area. I travel around 150-200 clicks on day rides many days in the summer. People will bring the older 60's stuff out to shows only and they are mostly trailered to the show. So clearly up here there is not any type of following of these Japanese bikes being used or ridden on a regular basis. Our CVMG club seems to have a bunch of old guys who still favour the British twins from the 60's and 70's and ride them, or their modern bikes.

These bikes were disposable or the owners lost interest and moved on, like many items from way back when. Today the general masses are not interested in stuff like this from the 60's and 70's today. We are a very small percentage of the overall general population to put it in perspective guys. Any of my nieces and nephews all in their 30's now have no interest in any of this stuff. This was one reason I sold off my motorcycle collection while there was still some interest and value. These bikes like old cars will possibly be relegated to where they came from as found. In garages and old barns and sheds. There is no one in my orbit who would have even the faintest interest in owning or riding such an antique.

Sad but true in my world today at least.

 

[Tony Clifton]

how useless all these current electronic-laden vehicles will be in the next 10 to 20 years, there will be junkyards full of them and no one interested in attempting to revive them due to all the electronic complexity and the failings associated with it.

So true...and it's not merely that major electronic components simply give up the ghost, say, a BCM or some other expensive component, Joe Shade Tree Mechanic who has some skills can't even get to first base unless he has the factory diagnostic tools or something similar just to properly troubleshoot.

So...yeah...there will be a lot of late model cars in perfect looking condition rotting in fields, even more so than today

 

[ancientdad]

So true...and it's not merely that major electronic components simply give up the ghost, say, a BCM or some other expensive component, Joe Shade Tree Mechanic who has some skills can't even get to first base unless he has the factory diagnostic tools or something similar just to properly troubleshoot.

Captive technology, car dealerships have hoarded it (probably at the behest of the manufacturers) for quite a while and AFAIK only a few states have enacted laws overruling it to force the dealer or manufacturer to make it available to private garages. Worse yet, though, will be the lack of available reman or new replacement BCMs and such for those who would even want to try, parts aren't being manufactured for nearly as long on the new cars compared to the longtime durable models decades ago (because I'm sure they suspect, or already know, the POS won't be around long enough for it to matter).

 

[Flyin900]

Everything is meant to be disposable today vs in the past. We are relics who remember when stuff was built to last. Younger people today buy a new cell phone every few years or less. That is their mind set and reality as they have grown up today. They don't see buying something that will last 10 years. Even if they do the way products are made today they have been conditioned with that breakdown disposal expectation. Appliances only last 10 years if you’re really lucky, or have deep pockets for a high end brand of product.
As noted many new cars won't last beyond 10 years. If they do the cost of fixing it if even possible then the broken tech and part repair costs will relegate it to a replacement vehicle.

 

[ferrisbueller]

Everything is meant to be disposable today vs in the past. We are relics who remember when stuff was built to last. Younger people today buy a new cell phone every few years, they need the latest and greatest tech. That is their mind set and reality as they have grown up today. They don't see buying something that will last 10 years and if they do it is just how products are made today and they have been conditioned with that expectation. Appliances only last 10 years if your really lucky or have deep pockets for a high end brand of product.
As noted cars won't last beyond 10 years and if they do the cost of fixing it if even possible, then the broken tech will relegate it to replacement.

Benjamin Franklin Gravely made walk behind tractors. He made them so well, that they are still in use today. They were expensive for the time, and he ultimately sold one to everyone who could afford one. Company got bought by a company that made them not last as long, and the name lives on. We will never have things that last again. Enjoy the things we have now, and pass them down. My stuff will outlast me, I hope my kids do the same.

This new stuff will be in landfills soon, replaced by newer stuff. I guess that is what makes the world go around.

 

[Tony Clifton]

This new stuff will be in landfills soon, replaced by newer stuff. I guess that is what makes the world go around.

The problem is when all they make is crap, and there isn't a more expensive but higher quality option

The old chestnut about those who know the price of everything and the value of nothing figures in here

 

[Spokes]

I don't think all is lost. This young man was taken back with the 62. I allowed him to take a picture sitting on the bike. He was thrilled and it gives me hope that somewhere, somehow, at least a few will continue to embrace vintage machines going forward.

 

[CarnivorousChicken]

. In the late 60's I was buying cars in good condition (highly collectable today) for $25 & $50 just to have demolition derby's on property owned by friends.
Some folks honed their mechanical skills on near worthless vehicles. Afterward, the bikes were thrown in back of a shed or business and forgotten about.

After buying a 1963 VW "Variant" -- Squareback before they were called that -- for $350 and then abandoning it in CA on a road trip from WA (I didn't have enough money to fix it), I had a $200 Pinto then a $200 Caprice Classic then, beginning in 1990 or so, a series of Dodge Darts and Plymouth Valiants: $100, $200, $400, $500 (the only one I had with a 318 V8). When I got rear-ended in that one, I got a $2000 pay out and bought my '64 Valiant convertible. They were all great cars (the $200 Valiant took a dump after about a year, but the $100 Dart I owned for 4 years and it drove me around the country. When the front end went, I sold it to Isaac Brock (of Modest Mouse fame) for $50). I owned my '64 for 20 years, it was my daily driver, replaced the engine once (with help from a friend) but kept it properly maintained and I could do most of the work since everything was so easy. I like simple, and the bikes we ride also fit that bill. The days of cheap Darts are mostly gone I think, but maybe there are a few out there.

Added detail: I passed on a 440 six pack Dart for $2500 around 1992 because I didn't have the cash. Should've borrowed it somehow, but... probably couldn't have.

 

[Spokes]

I passed on a 440 six pack Dart for $2500 around 1992 because I didn't have the cash.

Summer 1971. The last fling of a my wild youth. I was inspired by working with a Viet Nam vet on his Porsche 356B (in primer). I found a 57 Porsche Speedster (in blue). My 65 Mustang in the background along with my father's 66 MGB. I look back and wish I could have kept the Speedster. Just like bikes, every car has a story.