CL350 Vintage racer 2.0

Emlupi

Emlupi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2024
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Location
CT
AD edit: his original build thread for this bike can be found here - 'CL350 Vintage racer project'
https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/forums/threads/cl350-vintage-racer-project.11708/
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Good morning all,
So, after a couple of rounds on track with the 350 I am going to make some changes to the setup.
I’ve been experiencing front end chatter mid-corner which seems to get worse the harder I go in. I tried adjusting fork oil weight and it helped some but I chattered myself into a lowside last time out so I gotta make some changes.
I think one of the contributors is the boat anchor front brake. The GT750 front brake/ hub is hideously heavy and I believe my suspension setup is having trouble coping. My brake guy suggested using the Suzuki Titan front brake but they are notorious in the racing community for cracking. He told me that he used one on his race bikes and it was an excellent setup but I just didn’t feel comfortable with that. So, I made a deal with him and I am going to go with a CB77 front brake.
I got it home and have disassembled and cleaned it up.

IMG_9698.jpeg
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I have to call Buchanan today and see if I can use the same rim with this hub. The Suzuki and Honda are both 36 spoke hubs so maybe I get lucky and the spoke pattern works for both🤞.
I’m also going to go back to the factory fuel tank. The race tank is ok but there’s a couple of things I don’t really like about it. First of all it kinda locks me into one seating position on the bike. I can’t really move my weight around, especially forward. Secondly, I have extremely limited steering lock which makes low speed maneuvering a pain. No, it’s not much of a consideration on track at speed but getting the bike off the trailer and maneuvering around the paddock is also a consideration.
Finally I’m going back to the clip-on bars because I tweaked the clubmans and I already have them here ready to go.😀
I will let you know how things progress and see how it performs at the next event.
 
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You're on the right path. Below is a pic of my CL175 race bike front with a CB77 front brake, so you can check out the spoke pattern. I sourced the Excel rim from Buchanan about 14 years ago along with the extra thick spokes. I saw a guy or two coming back to the pits with a broken spoke and wanted no part of that

I mentioned the need for forward weight bias in your previous thread so I believe you will be happier with the tank change, good on ya

CB77 Hub.jpg
 
Thanks, I have to do something because going into corners hoping that I won’t have issues isn’t really the answer 😄.
I spoke (no pun intended) to the fine folks at Buchanan today and they told me I should have no problem using my existing rim with the CB77 hub. Just need the correct length spokes and swap it out.
I like the race tank because it allows me to use my legs for support and not rely on my arms. I don’t know why all of them are made so long. I would like to have something like a Manx style tank that fits in the factory mount on the Honda. It’s probably out there, just gotta look around.
 
As for the CB77 brake, the 350 class leader uses a 450 brake which is basically the same thing. It doesn’t seem to be a detriment to his game because that guy is freaking fast!
 
Emlupi said:
I like the race tank because it allows me to use my legs for support and not rely on my arms. I don’t know why all of them are made so long.
Click to expand...
I don't think a stock tank lessens the ability to grip the tank with the knees, but I might not be understanding

As far as tank length, I am guessing there is a market for those enamored with TT-style long tanks like those campaigned back in the day but of course those were on long road courses in which it was a benefit to the rider to comfortably stretch out, lay low and stay under the windscreen. These considerations are of limited value in sprint races
 
I figured something was up when you posted about the CB77 drum shoes. It makes sense to revise your build based on your experience and I hope it will be a good step forward.
 
I was wondering what your revisions would be after the first few runs. I think a part of every build is always evolving.
 
I fabricated a sheet metal extension for the seat. Going back to the shorter fuel tank left a gap. Won’t win any beauty contests but it works.

IMG_9711.jpeg
 
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I got the Suzuki brake out this evening. Man! that thing is a tank! It is easily twice the weight of the CB77 brake. Yes, it has more braking power but what good is it if you can’t go into a corner fast enough to take advantage without chattering into the weeds. There are others on 350’s making it work but it’s not working for me.
Here they are side by side. It’s a really good piece but it weighs a ton

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It will be interesting to see how the handling of the bike changes with around 50% reduction in unsprung weight on the front end.
 

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I saw in the 1.0 thread that you arced the shoes for the Suzuki drum. Is there any evidence of high/low spots on the shoes after the riding you've done on the track? Did you ever check the drum for roundness?

I think I understand the benefit of reducing the unsprung weight, but also feel like there must be some uneven input to cause the chatter in the first place, whether from the track surface, the drum, the shoes, or the suspension itself.

That Suzuki drum is a behemoth.
 
Emlupi said:
AD edit: his original build thread for this bike can be found here - 'CL350 Vintage racer project'
https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/forums/threads/cl350-vintage-racer-project.11708/
__________________________________________________

Good morning all,
So, after a couple of rounds on track with the 350 I am going to make some changes to the setup.
I’ve been experiencing front end chatter mid-corner which seems to get worse the harder I go in. I tried adjusting fork oil weight and it helped some but I chattered myself into a lowside last time out so I gotta make some changes.
I think one of the contributors is the boat anchor front brake. The GT750 front brake/ hub is hideously heavy and I believe my suspension setup is having trouble coping. My brake guy suggested using the Suzuki Titan front brake but they are notorious in the racing community for cracking. He told me that he used one on his race bikes and it was an excellent setup but I just didn’t feel comfortable with that. So, I made a deal with him and I am going to go with a CB77 front brake.
I got it home and have disassembled and cleaned it up.

View attachment 59570
View attachment 59571
View attachment 59572

I have to call Buchanan today and see if I can use the same rim with this hub. The Suzuki and Honda are both 36 spoke hubs so maybe I get lucky and the spoke pattern works for both🤞.
I’m also going to go back to the factory fuel tank. The race tank is ok but there’s a couple of things I don’t really like about it. First of all it kinda locks me into one seating position on the bike. I can’t really move my weight around, especially forward. Secondly, I have extremely limited steering lock which makes low speed maneuvering a pain. No, it’s not much of a consideration on track at speed but getting the bike off the trailer and maneuvering around the paddock is also a consideration.
Finally I’m going back to the clip-on bars because I tweaked the clubmans and I already have them here ready to go.😀
I will let you know how things progress and see how it performs at the next event.
Click to expand...
Looks good I will be following your progress good luck
 
The machinist who did the work on the GT drum said it was round.
The most likely suspect of the front chatter is the weight of the Suzuki drum. The springs and rebound damping can’t get the wheel back down in contact with the road fast enough due to the mass of that huge hub/brakes. So the front tire starts to skip sideways along the tarmac. It is most pronounced mid corner where lean angle reduces the effectiveness of the suspension even further.
The only way to solve the issue is to try to isolate the cause which is a step by step process. If the change of brake doesn’t fix it then it’s on to the next most probable cause. I also took apart the front end and cleaned it up, retorqued steering stem hardware, etc.
The proof is in the pudding so we’ll see how it handles next time out.
This issue was also present at Thompson so it’s not the track surface at Canaan. I wouldn’t suspect the brake shoes because I’m already off the brakes and getting ready to pick up the gas mid corner.
 
Well, another bone headed mistake by myself. I followed information I got online that the CB77 is a 36 spoke hub but the hub I have is 40 spokes. I didn’t stop to actually count the holes which is going to cost me time.
I have to get a 40 spoke rim for this project and hope it can get here by next weekend. 😞
 
Yes. I did some research and I believe that I was misinformed. I was told that the brake was from a CB77 but it turns out that the brake is actually a CB450. The 77 is a 36 spoke hub, the 450 is 40 spokes. I hope that the hub diameter is the same or I will need to get all new spokes as well as a new rim🤬🤬. Trust but verify.
 
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