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CB450 electronic ignition
- Thread starter twinfan
- Start date
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Okay, we'll wait for context.
PebbleByte
Member
Any updates on the electronic ignition kit?
There’s quite a few running a Charlie’s unit. I don’t know that I’d call it a true “electronic ignition” as it’s more or less just an electronic trigger that replaces points, unlike some others that have programmable advance curves as well.
I’m happy with mine, but that probably moreso just personal preference for not having to mess with points.
If you’re looking at one for your own project there’s a few threads here on them - personally I think it’s more telling that there aren’t a ton of threads on them since people tend to post issues they’re looking to fix more than product reviews.
So, my 450 is now equipped with Charlie's Place's electronic ignition kit and their extra-strong coils to match.
The setup works great and I have no problems to report. I like the kit.
On another note, the man who sold me the bike ran it on one cylinder for probably a thousand miles... And the clutch slips... I suspect he didn't even realize,
Discovered that a lot of gas had mixed with oil (probably a couple quarts) and flushed the liquid.
Replaced with a full dose of fresh Mobil1 10W40 Racing Oil, which I'm going to flush again after about 100 miles, and again after another 300-350 miles.
So I'm getting ready to rebuild the clutch. Does someone have any tips, tricks, and gotchas that could help me in this project?
Should I stick to Honda OEM parts, or is some after market vendor offering excellent quality clutch replacement components?
Last question: can someone recommend a good dynamometric wrench?
The setup works great and I have no problems to report. I like the kit.
On another note, the man who sold me the bike ran it on one cylinder for probably a thousand miles... And the clutch slips... I suspect he didn't even realize,
Discovered that a lot of gas had mixed with oil (probably a couple quarts) and flushed the liquid.
Replaced with a full dose of fresh Mobil1 10W40 Racing Oil, which I'm going to flush again after about 100 miles, and again after another 300-350 miles.
So I'm getting ready to rebuild the clutch. Does someone have any tips, tricks, and gotchas that could help me in this project?
Should I stick to Honda OEM parts, or is some after market vendor offering excellent quality clutch replacement components?
Last question: can someone recommend a good dynamometric wrench?
RobMan
Veteran Member
That's great that the Charlies Place ignition system is working for you! On the clutch I would just follow the FSM and disassemble the clutch before making any decisions on ordering any parts. Also make sure that the clutch cable is adjusted properly and the cable and mechanism are sticking or binding holding pressure on the clutch causing it to slip. I would personally get Honda parts unless someone had a really good endorsement on aftermarket parts.
A what?
stl360+450
Veteran Member
A torque wrench.
Mine are nothing special, otherwise I'd make a recommendation. (One click-style from HF and another beam style from NAPA.)
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Obviously I'm not alone in never hearing one called THAT before.
For a torque wrench you need to take a look at the the torque specs you'll be working with. One size doesn't fit all.
jensen
Veteran Member
The realistic range of a torque wrench is 20- 40% from the bottom range and 15-20% from the full scale value (for a mechanical torque wrench based on a spring)
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The routing of the clutch cable was a problem, it was putting pressure on the carbs and they wouldn't return to idle. I found a spot where it's not doing that anymore, it's now pressing on the front right edge of the left carb and that's solved the idling problem. However, the clutch slips in 4th and 5th gears, not in the lower ones. I'll try to play with cable tension first, then find a better route for the cable. It may be as simple as that. Is there an optimal path that someone can recommend?
I'm sure there are options to the path you've routed yours, if only we could see what that path was....
but, this is how mine is routed.Maintenance and modifications, now 7 years on
... ah screw it, just go the whole hog and pull out the ouija board :devilish: All the disembodied can do is mind games, flattery mostly, unless you invite them in. :alien:
www.vintagehondatwins.com
And yes, clutch adjustment could cause slippage in the upper gears where the load on the clutch is the highest. If you have very little free play at the lever, it can keep the clutch from fully applying the pressure of the springs. And, if the adjuster (large flat screwdriver slot on the front sprocket cover) at the clutch lifter is turned too far to the right it can also cause it.
Vintage bikes are really just a wonderful but expensive way to vaporize time and dollars.... New bikes may cost more and work flawlessly but they lack the charm of the classics.
I've been discovering that my CB450 came with plenty of surprises and oddities. Silly me, I bought it sight unseen this summer, after an interview of the prior owner, who of course swore that it would be running perfectly after just a tune-up.
1. Turns out it was running on just one cylinder and the engine was flooded. Problem fixed now, cleaned the oil filter and gave it fresh synthetic oil. Installed new and stronger coils and an electronic ignition kit from Charlie's Place. It all works nicely and the bike runs on both cylinders now.
2. The cables were routed by someone with a serious preference for bending them over forcefully. I bought a set of new cables from those guys in Houston.
3. Lubricating moving parts was probably considered a unnecessary burden for years, and neglected accordingly. That explains the vibration level.
4. The seat and turn signals, plus other random parts came from another bike (K3, 4, or 5). The seat was mounted on a home-made bracket that pointed sideways.
5. The grab bar was absent. I found a new one in Vietnam on eBay. Now I need a pair of K6 turn signals.
6. The brake line had been replaced with a steel one, which is too long and wrongly routed. The brake light relay was not working, I replaced it but that didn't fix the issue, next step is chasing electrical gremlins.
7. The carbs were gummed, of course. A rebuild-plus-cleaning took care of that.
8. The air filters are way past expiration date. They look as if they were made from cement. I ordered a new aftermarket set, the Honda OEM parts are ruinous. The new ones are announced for delivery this week.
9. The gas tank started leaking for no obvious reason (rebuilding the petcock should be relatively easy). Once I drained it completely, I discovered a layer of white and brown deposit inside as well.
10. Since the tank cap is coated in some whitish cake, and the cap seal is of course old and cracked, I'm replacing it with an aftermarket part. No big deal.
And the list goes on and on. This thing really needed some TLC.
So I just bought a second 450 K6 as a parts bike. All I needed was another project... At the end of the day though, it doesn't matter so long as it puts a deep grin on your face, right?
Btw, thanks again to our forum fellow 2wheel, for providing a correct K6 replacement seat!
I've been discovering that my CB450 came with plenty of surprises and oddities. Silly me, I bought it sight unseen this summer, after an interview of the prior owner, who of course swore that it would be running perfectly after just a tune-up.
1. Turns out it was running on just one cylinder and the engine was flooded. Problem fixed now, cleaned the oil filter and gave it fresh synthetic oil. Installed new and stronger coils and an electronic ignition kit from Charlie's Place. It all works nicely and the bike runs on both cylinders now.
2. The cables were routed by someone with a serious preference for bending them over forcefully. I bought a set of new cables from those guys in Houston.
3. Lubricating moving parts was probably considered a unnecessary burden for years, and neglected accordingly. That explains the vibration level.
4. The seat and turn signals, plus other random parts came from another bike (K3, 4, or 5). The seat was mounted on a home-made bracket that pointed sideways.
5. The grab bar was absent. I found a new one in Vietnam on eBay. Now I need a pair of K6 turn signals.
6. The brake line had been replaced with a steel one, which is too long and wrongly routed. The brake light relay was not working, I replaced it but that didn't fix the issue, next step is chasing electrical gremlins.
7. The carbs were gummed, of course. A rebuild-plus-cleaning took care of that.
8. The air filters are way past expiration date. They look as if they were made from cement. I ordered a new aftermarket set, the Honda OEM parts are ruinous. The new ones are announced for delivery this week.
9. The gas tank started leaking for no obvious reason (rebuilding the petcock should be relatively easy). Once I drained it completely, I discovered a layer of white and brown deposit inside as well.
10. Since the tank cap is coated in some whitish cake, and the cap seal is of course old and cracked, I'm replacing it with an aftermarket part. No big deal.
And the list goes on and on. This thing really needed some TLC.
So I just bought a second 450 K6 as a parts bike. All I needed was another project... At the end of the day though, it doesn't matter so long as it puts a deep grin on your face, right?
Btw, thanks again to our forum fellow 2wheel, for providing a correct K6 replacement seat!
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I was fortunate to buy a less-than-usually molested CL450K5, but so many of them have been mixed and (semi)matched over the years that we often end up with bitsa bikes and only discover it as we start to work on them. This is one of the reasons we suggest sharing pictures and the ad listing for bikes members are considering buying, so we can examine them here together visually to try to point out those things for purchase negotiations.
I still find it hard to understand how someone could actually ride a 450 that only runs on one cylinder and assume that was normal performance.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I suppose I will be a "Guilty as charged PO some day, with a titled CB450K5, engine top case shows a CL450K4, gauges from K6 or K7 but hopefully it will be around after I am gone without too many "What the XXXX was he thinking!"
Happy to report that the electronic ignition kit from Charlie's Place works like a charm. I also installed his super-duper coils. They also run flawlessly.
Hey, wondering if you have an update on the Charlie's place kit a year later. I am considering either switching back to stock points or installing Charlies to replace a bad Pamco. I also recently bought a cb450 running on a single cylinder. The owner also 'thought' the bike was running great.
I’ve been running one on my 450 - zero complaints. I will say it does not like voltage drops.
Good to know! Are there specific voltage drops? such as switching on the headlight or something irregular? Also how long have you had it.
I will be riding long distances, so hoping to find something reliable.
Once you get below 11.8v the pickup stops working right - essentially, you’ll only find it if your battery is failing at the same time you’re running a headlight and have the second phase of the alternator disconnected.
In short, you’d have to work really hard to even find the situation that it would be an issue.
In short, you’d have to work really hard to even find the situation that it would be an issue.
Sorry, just saw your post. It's running well. I recommend also installing their stronger coils and fresh spark plugs.
I have nothing but good things to say about Charlie's Place's parts, and their service is also very nice. There may be other solutions but I recommend them wholeheartedly.
Seems to be commonplace.. Mine was running on a single cylinder too and the owner found it perfect, even though it idled at 3-3.5 K rpm.... Stupid path for the clutch cable was the cause. Go figure. Many things were off, I eventually replaced the charging and ignition systems and the coils, cleaned and rebuilt the carbs, and many other things. The bike is now fine, my next step is to replace the electrical harness. After that, something else will require attention, no doubt. But that's a given when you own these classic bikes. However, I suspect my Hondas will outlive me by at least a century..
With all that work you should document the process and results in a build thread. It would be a great place to work through the electrical, since there’s a couple of changes you’re going to want to make (tie yellow and white together permanently in the charging circuit and install a modern rec/reg).
… and you might as well throw LED indicators and a flasher in the mix.
Do you have pictures of your new clutch wiring path? I justes switched back to points. I think it is in fact the clutch. can’t switch to neutral while the bike is running now. idle is fine in gear, but if i start in neutral, it wants to run away on me.
My clutch cable is leaning against the front of the left carb, on its right size (as you look at it from behind). Photos
View attachment IMG_1529.jpeg
attached.Points? Why? Electronic ignition is so much better! No point replacements, adjustments, wear & tear, or worries.
IIRC, his EI failed - which is the one drawback to them. When they fail internally it's not always apparent. The shockwave and some of the Tytronic ones have a somewhat shaky history of reliability.
I see... So far so good with the one from Charlie's Place.
There are two reasons I don't have one on my 450 restomod: first, what EzPete mentioned about reliability. Yes, the quality EIs that are simply points replacers (like Charlie's) are generally reliable as long as you also use a modern rec/reg unit to avoid spikes above 14.5v that often ruin aftermarket EIs, but they also only replace the points. You still need the stock advancer, and it can wear as well as develop weak return springs so you still have to deal with some level of mechanical replacement or maintenance. But yeah, it's a lot less often, and no more points adjustments every 1500 to 2000 miles. Second, the advancer part of it - factory EIs eliminate the advancer so they are truly trouble free, but AFAIK there's only one unit out there right now (since Pamco's version of a full EI has been gone now for a while) that includes electronic advance, and it's roughly 3 times the price plus shipping and tariff coasts from Europe.
I bought a NOS points plate with all components brand new almost 10 years ago and I'm still using the same points today. I modified my advancer to reduce the possibility of high rpm misfire from points float because the cams in my engine added 1000 rpm to the redline/power peak, and my bike will turn 11,000 rpm without a miss using points. I also devised a method by which I can set the timing at full advance with the engine shut off, no more oiling myself up using a strobe timing light, so it's even easier to adjust them when needed. And I've put about 5000 miles of mostly high rpm running on the bike with those NOS points, and I fully expect them to last another 10 years at which point I won't likely be riding anymore. But the best part of using points is, I know I will never be left on the side of the road with no spark because of electronics.
I stand corrected. No, enlightened. Very interesting post!