Black Friday - a red 1965 CB160

ballbearian said:
Grooved Rear Brake Shoes - Honda CB/CL160/450 CB500 CB550 (4into1.com) On sale 19.95 Whats not to like?
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Yup, those are on my radar. I'd like to hear from someone that's used them, but that's not too probable.

Boomer343 said:
https://industrialbrakeclutch.com/classic-cars-and-motorcycles-brake-clutch-relining/

Saw this website, have no knowledge of their work or reputation.
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They sound very good and I'm all in favor of supporting businesses like this, thank you I'll save that link.
 
I won an auction for a set of NOS Honda front brake shoes, I can rest easier now. These seem like the only ticket in town for braking performance on this bike.

Here are the 'after' pics of the wheels after truing and a coat of CorrosionX.
This stuff is oily, that's the first thing I learned. I sprayed them down outside then wiped them down to spread the coating evenly and catch drips before I brought them inside to sit on some boxes in the warm attic. I just went up and wiped them both down again, one half width paper towel was all it took for each wheel, I'll save those to apply the coating to other parts later on. Pics:

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My only concern with NOS brake shoes is their age. The adhesive that bonds the friction material weakens with age and they can come apart in use. I don’t know if ones that have been on the shelf for 50+ years are as prone to this as those that have been on a bike for that long, but it’s something to think about.
 
Yes it's on my mind too, years ago my CB750K3 shoes delaminated in my hands with a soft sideways tap from a screwdriver handle. The bike had spent more time out in the rain than it should have, I think lots of condensation and maybe freeze/thaw cycles led to it. Shoes from a stockroom, even in a cold warehouse might be better, I'll post some pics when they arrive. If they even survive the trip.
 
While I obviously can't say for sure, I believe and agree that dampness plays a really big part in it. As such, I agree that if the NOS shoes were stored indoors in a typical parts room environment they should be okay. An example of what happens when a bike sits outdoors for a long time is shown in this set of shoes from the CM185 front end I bought from the rust-yard near me. Clearly a bunch of corroded aluminum under the lining

brake shoes delaminated.jpg
 
Exactly what I saw, lots of white aluminum oxide breaking the adhesion of the friction material to the backing plate. Aluminum oxide is used to grind glass, it's a very insistent material.
 
I shuffled the parts around in the Evaporust, some are done, some will take more flip, rotate & soak. I spent some time cleaning (most of) the old, crunchy, black grease from the speedometer drive and cleaned it up just a little on the outside. It spins freely and looks the part.

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Ok, ok. I keep reading of the merits of this Evaporust of which I'd never heard of before. Too many members singing its praises. Just ordered my first 1 litre bottle!!(y)
 
Looks really nice on those wheels. One bit of info from that 4into1 ad for the shoes was it said fits the 450's also. Is that true?
 
Washed the Evaporust from the tank side plates, rear sprocket, shifter, speedometer drive and grab handle then gave them a coat of CorrosionX wiped on with the same paper towels. Pics a little later when I give the tank panels a second coat.

Bead buddies arrived, I'll give mounting these tires a try. They're Mitas MC11's they're narrow and thin walled, don't weigh much but have a 364lb load rating and a soft rubber compound. Pics to come.
 
Hondaholic said:
Ok, ok. I keep reading of the merits of this Evaporust of which I'd never heard of before. Too many members singing its praises. Just ordered my first 1 litre bottle!!(y)
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Yes I'm sure you'll like this stuff, safe for all metals but it'll only attack red iron rust. But you'll need to use something afterward to keep rust from returning, oil, wax, paint or some other.

ballbearian said:
Looks really nice on those wheels. One bit of info from that 4into1 ad for the shoes was it said fits the 450's also. Is that true?
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I saw that reference in a few places, but I never saw it on CMSNL's related fitment lists.
 
Alan F. said:
Yes I'm sure you'll like this stuff, safe for all metals but it'll only attack red iron rust. But you'll need to use something afterward to keep rust from returning, oil, wax, paint or some other.
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Yep, ta. In UK we have this ACF 50, which I think will equate to your 'CorrosionX'.
s-l1600 (18).jpg
 
Thanks Steve, I hope someone finds that answer while searching here at VHT, where all of the real, true info is.


Tires are mounted! Easily too, I can see where the Baja No-Pinch is probably a smoother tool to operate but this thing works. I did both front and rear in a leisurely 10 minutes after rubbing everything down with talc and adding a few psi to the tubes (didn't measure, but softer enough to make balloon animals...)
I even got the direction of rotation correct on both. I'll air them up tomorrow.

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I'm sure you already know this but I'll mention it to be sure, before you put air in them loosen the nut on the stem so you can push it in while you air it up and it will come out on its own. I like to run the nut out until there's just enough room for the air chuck on the stem, and sometimes I'll remove the core for the first air up too. If you tighten the nut on the stem before airing it sometimes allows the tube to get squeezed by the tire
 
Thanks Tom, it's my first time mounting tires on my own actually. I spun the nuts tight just to keep the tire from rotating and angling the stems.
 
Well, the truth is the stem area of the tube isn't like a rim lock that is actually intended to prevent tire slippage, but in this case it's obviously not going to get any stress on it. That's just something I learned as a 15 year old while one of my duties at the first Honda shop job was busting almost all the tires that got done there during my summer of employment, maybe why I hate doing tires so much now :rolleyes:
 
Alan F. said:
Thanks Tom, it's my first time mounting tires on my own actually. I spun the nuts tight just to keep the tire from rotating and angling the stems.
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You are doing great. And, you used talc! Makes it easy to slide the valve stem straight. 1st air to about 10lbs, check for an even bead all around then air up. If not even bead, deflate, massage, try again..
 
Thanks, that's exactly what the tube box says, good advice thanks!

I just took a few things out of the Evaporust and put a few in, and a few back in too.

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Thanks Tom, it's ugly stuff now but it just keeps working. I've even got my head pipes in there after knocking them all over with a hammer to loosen any rust I could. One pipe has a ding in it that wasn't letting the flange past until I beat it rounder first, the flanges are in there too, it'll clean any red rust from the aluminum too.

I'm going to have to strip the frame down a little more for parts to soak, I'm just about done with what I have here. I wonder how those handlebars will fit this pan?
 
Here's a question. When I was cleaning out the speedometer drive I removed the oil seal and it was long past useable, or even legible unfortunately.

Looking at the parts fiches I find that this bike didn't have a replacement seal available:

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I'm wondering if I might be able to use the seal from a CA160 which seems to share no other front wheel parts with a CB or CL160.

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I'll go measure the speedometer drive in a little while.
 
Ok, check my logic please.
CA160 uses 91254-200-000 which when I look it up on eBay has the metric seal dimensions right there on the seal 22 35 8.

Measuring my speedometer drive and the drive flange/bearing retainer on the wheel, it looks to me like I need a metric seal measuring 34 48 8.

Edit: in reply #228 I discovered it's a 7mm seal I need, a 6.5 will work but they're pricey.
 
This is uncharted territory for both of us, I only rode and barely touched a CL160 at 15 so I don't know the answers to much of this. If I had to guess I'd say the pegs are probably different where they mount on the engine compared to where the 175 pegs mount on the frame.

Just compared the two at CMS and even the picture of the 175 pegs looks obviously different enough that you'd have to get the mounting tabs relocated and welded
 
Thanks Tom. Maybe I'll pick up another peg setup to mess with if I find one cheap. I could always just cut the solid pegs back and cut some threads on them for some $15 Chinesium folding pegs from eBay. I could add a checknut and some loctite, that may work.
 
I went out to storage today to pick up fenders, rear axle & spacers, handlebars and strip whatever else I could from the non-roller to bring home and soak.


I was hoping to get the forks off but that looks like a job for another day. I sprayed Seafoam Deep Creep on all of the fasteners and areas where parts seperate, I'll try back later on. Is there a trick to getting these steering dampers off? I didn't want to damage the knob so I just sprayed everything down and left it for now.


I'll have a look at the parts that are soaking, maybe some are presentable again and I can show them off....
 
Alan F. said:
After looking at all of the CB & CL 160 speedometer drives on eBay, I conclude that I'm looking for a metric seal measuring 34 48 7
(or 34 48 6.5 but they're pricey)

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/254265978444?hash=item3b336eee4c:g:u0IAAOSwvf1dBnuO
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If it can stick out a .5mm without dragging on something, then fine. If not, I might try "milling" it on my upside down belt sander with the trigger locked.
 
I measured the bore depth as just a hair under 8mm so there are certainly options. Unfortunately lots of these bikes probably got parked when this seal was trashed and let in road dirt to mix with the factory grease like this one did. When this happened the drag on the front wheel was probably noticeable. Speedometer performance probably suffered too.
Honda didnt offer a replacement seal, and I'm sure metric seals weren't very widely available for many years after these bikes were built. They wanted you to buy a whole new drive instead.
 
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If the ID were just under twice the OD, what kind of seal would that make? Let me get my sonic screwdriver out for that one right?

I'll agree that it sure looks that way but the first number is the ID on metric seals.
 
WELL, That's what the pic indicates, but measuring the center column of the bearing retainer flange that actually bolts to the wheel hub and is notched to drive the speedo gears, the seal-lip is actually for that 34 mm column......

I was making a (bad) joke of how even a pic does not always show the reality of some of the things we deal with here......Sorry....
 
66Sprint said:
WELL, That's what the pic indicates, but measuring the center column of the bearing retainer flange that actually bolts to the wheel hub and is notched to drive the speedo gears, the seal-lip is actually for that 34 mm column......

I was making a (bad) joke of how even a pic does not always show the reality of some of the things we deal with here......Sorry....
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I'm sorry too, I really don't want to be that guy!

Honestly I wasn't paying much attention to anything but the seal thickness at that point. After posting the question during the quietest part of the day and coincidentally getting no replies, I posted my inner monologue and finally found the solution.

I didn't mean to poop all over your joke, I'm to blame there. Next round's on me.
 
If my memory is right the steering damper is held in by threads at the bottom. If you look under the steering stem you'll see a star shaped thing pressing up and the end of the threaded rod from the knob on top coming out of the center. Take off the cotter pin, squirt some penetrating oil on the threads, and then unscrew the knob which should release everything and things will fall off at the bottom. The parts blow-up at https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb160-sport-general-export_model15852/partslist/F20.html#.YbqY_WjMJEY will show you the correct order of things.

Be gentle with the knob. They can break off the long threaded rod and then you're not going to be happy.
 
Thanks 66Sprint, LDR and Wentwest. Yes let's hope the Deep Creep saves the day again. I'd hate to break anything.

Now some more pics of (mostly) rust free parts. When I take them out of the Evaporust I let them air dry like the label says, to help flash rust from happening. I'm not sure if I need to but I am. Later when I'm available again I give them a hot water rinse to get all of that off, dry them by hand and give them a coat of CorrosionX mostly with what's already been absorbed in a few paper towels but I add a few drops for heavily pitted areas to get good coverage. It'll also spread on its own which is really nice, I'll buff the excess off in a few days.

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And here's a look at the footpegs stay, looks like 'Ol Bob was into parking this thing on its sides and staggering away on foot. Maybe he got his bike kicked over a lot? Not sure but look at these things, are those welded on reinforcements factory? I wonder how many times they got straightened before he gave up trying?

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Alan F. said:
And here's a look at the footpegs stay, looks like 'Ol Bob was into parking this thing on its sides and staggering away on foot. Maybe he got his bike kicked over a lot? Not sure but look at these things, are those welded on reinforcements factory? I wonder how many times they got straightened before he gave up trying?

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Just a big vice and long pipes needed. Bet old Bob never tried, just put up with em.
 
That's how they were from the factory, yes. I remember the same look on all the small bikes, S90, S65, C110. As mentioned, clamp them in a solid vise and use a big pipe to straighten, usually no heat is necessary. Man, riding like that for a while would gimp out your ankles
 
I agree Tom but I wonder how far over you can lean one of these? An extra inch of clearance might have been fun.

I'll have to look for rub marks on the rubbers.
 
ancientdad said:
That's how they were from the factory, yes. I remember the same look on all the small bikes, S90, S65, C110. As mentioned, clamp them in a solid vise and use a big pipe to straighten, usually no heat is necessary. Man, riding like that for a while would gimp out your ankles
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Gimped ankles lol. That is a funny mental image for sure. Thinking rubber tank knee pads disappeared about the same time as solid pegs. Could that have been a coincidence?
 
Actually, when I was checking my memory on the solid footpegs I thought my CT200 ('64 to '66 or so) had as well but when I looked it up on CMSNL is showed they had folding pegs, so even back then the CBs had solid pegs.

Just looked at the CL90, CL160 and CL175K0. The CL90 showed both but did not offer a frame number for when it might have changed, the CL160 and CL175K0 had folding. So, if you can find these by part number used somewhere you know they'll bolt onto the engine and you'll have folding pegs - 50600-223-000b

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cl160-scrambler-1966-usa_model1040/bar-step_50600223000b/
 
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