A meticulous restoration of a CB72 '67 (and a SS50Z K3)

[jensen]

Like the title says, a restoration of a CB72 from 1966 and a C78 from 1964 (late dream), both original Dutch / German versions, with winkers etc.





First the CB72, taking it apart, drop the parts at the paint shop, meanwhile a brief restoration of the engine. After disassembly of the CB72 there is room for the C78 on the bridge, take it apart, and restore the C78 engine as well.
Both will be a technical restoration, and what should be painted will be painted, if the quality of the paint of some parts is useful, I'll keep it that way (original patina). The paint of the frame of the CB72 is too far gone, mainly around the battery area. The fuel tank is ok, and good enough to keep it that way. Most parts are in boxes, I took them off the bike +/- 20 years ago and stored the bike as you see here.

The crank will be replaced by a cleaned one (thanks G-man !), the kickstarter mechanism will be replaced by the parts from G-man as well. Sachse e-ignition to take out the (unreliable) advancer. I will add my, by me, developed oil filter set-up as well for testing purposes. The rectifier will be replaced by a (single phase) voltage regulator, and to keep the load down, all bulbs, except the headlight, will be replaced by LED bulbs. An original steering damper with the special bolt and a side stand will complete the package.

Since I already have a perfect original CB72, this one will be "upgraded", to make it a more usable bike.

 

[stl360+450]

I don't know much about these models, so it will be fun for me to learn as you go.

 

[ballbearian]

I imagine G-man renewed the small end rod bushings as well during his crank work.
Will the ignition be moved from the cam to the crank?
I hope you share some info on your new filter system. I did some 'porting' on the output channel of my oil pump to reduce turbulence and improve flow as recommended by others.

 

[jensen]

I don't know much about these models, so it will be fun for me to learn as you go.

Well, I don't have to be afraid to get bored, four 450's, a CB72 and a C78, all at once. It will be a pleasant distraction from the everyday job. I decided to start the builds of the CB72 and C78 because of the thread of @britman and the comments @ballbearian. I couldn't wait until the finishing of the 450's, and add some variety.

I imagine G-man renewed the small end rod bushings as well during his crank work.

Actually, I don't know, but if G-man says it's good to go, it's good to go.

Will the ignition be moved from the cam to the crank?

Yes, that's at least for the CB72. I did not decide it jet for the dream.

I hope you share some info on your new filter system. I did some 'porting' on the output channel of my oil pump to reduce turbulence and improve flow as recommended by others.

Yes, I will.

The C78 is the first classic bike I owned, rode it for a while until children, work and a house got in the way, and I put the C78 aside. A few years later I stumbled upon this CB72, since it was not running, I put it on aside too, thinking I would come to it when the children were grown up. Meanwhile, I got another, perfect CB72, running, completely stock and I ride that bike regularly. My oldest son is now living in Germany, so I think it's time to wipe the dust off these bikes and restore them in a way that I won't hesitate to ride them, meaning make them reliable and ready for the coming decade's.

I decided to keep the CB72 black / silver, unless I change my mind in the coming months (red is also a very attractive color, and since my CB450 K0's are black, maybe I'll go for red). The C78 dream will be black with the original red seat. Like mentioned in the thread of @britman, I'll like to add the Buco's and a windshield (Buco as well) to the bike. I bought the Buco's from the US, 20 years ago, when the prices were low, and shipment slow (by boat, dirt cheap). The Buco windshield is a NOS item, also bought from the US, many, many, years ago, very affordable then. I have almost all the parts for the build, except oil seals and O-rings of Viton.

Enjoy the thread !, I will add as many pictures as possible.

 

[ballbearian]

I believe the mechanical advancer problems can be fixed by modification to replace the rubber bumpers on the weights. The EI from Sachse will be more beneficial on the 180 degree crank, I would think.
Bill Silver's restoration guide does mention using the larger pistons, etc. on the 250 motors as so many of the parts are shared. I can't remember the specifics, off hand. It would be interesting to see one converted.
I will enjoy following along here.

 

[jensen]

Choices, choices....

CB72:

- using standard pistons, 020, 030 (or overbore, don't know what's inside now and/or in which state)
- using high compression pistons (010)
- using the +3 mm overbore pistons
- using CB77 pistons, but then I have to adapt the cases (?)
- using pistons from a different brand



I have all the parts in stock, I only have to make a choise....

For the C78 I use the normal 305 pistons. I also found the Buco's, and, I totally forgot about it, an original luggage rack (actually for the Dutch / German market) and only for the early dreams. I treid to fit it on the C78, and it fits perfectly. So, like the Americans say (I believe?), this will be a fully dressed Dream.





I have the lights of the Buco's as well, just have to locate them, I know I have them somewhere stored

 

[boddy]

I have the lights of the Buco's as well, just have to locate them, I know I have them somewhere stored

Maybe inside the Buco's?

 

[bilbikek411]

I'll be following the progress on this one

 

[jensen]

Maybe inside the Buco's?

No, unfortunately not... probably in the box "electric parts C77"

 

[ballbearian]

Since they all have a 54mm stroke you do have many choices. Do you have a set of the 26mm carbs?

Britman found some new lenses if you can't find yours. I think they were vintage automotive reproduction.

 

[ballbearian]

I hope you have some pictures of your Dream before you dismantle it.

Another thought is the rear shock absorbers and additional weight from the racks and Bucos. Shocks from a Honda Rebel will work but I would someday like to rework some originals with heavier oil.

 

[jensen]

I hope you have some pictures of your Dream before you dismantle it.

I have a complete dream (C77), but, same as the CB72, completely original, so a good example is never far away. The C78 to be build will be a replacement of the C77, and make it, just as the CB72, a more rideable bike, not completely original, but upgraded where necessary and possible.

Do you have a set of the 26mm carbs?

Yes, plenty to choose from, but not sure if a bigger carb will have a better performance. Depending on the pistons, I'll choose the carburetors wisely.

Britman found some new lenses if you can't find yours. I think they were vintage automotive reproduction.

I found them, in the box I mentioned. I remembered that I bought replacement lenses from Thailand, somewhere in the late 90's, very good quality.

 

[jensen]

Tonight I did some archeological research in the search of the boxes of parts for these two builds.

CB72 fuel tank :



Some patina, but not enough to paint, and i will use it as is, that, if the inside is in good condition:



Hmm, some light rust, not something to worry about. If you look good, you see some oil in the left bottom, I did put it in years ago, but likely I didn't shake it enough. O well, a one-night stand with vinegar will clean it up.


Then the C78 fuel tank:


I think I'll sent this one to the painter, I doubt if the paint is original, looking at the surface....

I hope the inside is better:



Perfect !, no rust here, other than some stains. Nice to see the welds are still blue / brown, I couldn't wish for more.

 

[ballbearian]

Bill Silver's restoration guide has 4 pages about performance modifications that are very interesting in addition to a lot of other info in his download package.

 

[jensen]

Found the box of CB72 parts :



Including the headlight shell, side covers and other painted stuff:



The paint is good enough to use, as it seemed from this side.... but the other side told a different story:



I have to decide if I want to restore the rusted part and keep the visible patina at the top side, including the light switch marks, in white.

 

[jensen]

Bill Silver's restoration guide has 4 pages about performance modifications that are very interesting in addition to a lot of other info in his download package.

I have these guides in paper version, black and white, but I don't recall performance modifications, I will re-read the guide....

 

[jensen]

The rest of the painted (black parts) have to be re-painted, too much damage, too much rust, just like the frame.












The inside of the battery holder is rusted, as well as the toolbox (top side). Both parts are not visible from the outside, thus won't disturb the original patina look when painted.


Then the silver parts:








Hmm, I think I'll have to re-paint all the silver parts, maybe let the side covers and the starter motor cover original (after a clean-up), but the horn is definitely a candidate for painting.

 

[ballbearian]

I have these guides in paper version, black and white, but I don't recall performance modifications, I will re-read the guide....

Pages 74-77 of the Engine repair Guide.

 

[jensen]

Pages 74-77 of the Engine repair Guide.

I'll check it out!, thanks !

 

[jensen]

Diving further into the parts stash:



The impossible to find winkers (same as on the CB450 K0. Luckily, I have a few sets as a spare, but this bike came with the shown winkers.



And the winker switch (L/H). I also have a R/H winker switch used on the '61 bike and the "in between" CB72.



Original, uncracked, nice rear winker lens. Aftermarket ones are plenty for sale, but the originals are hard to get, especially undamaged. A good cleaning from in and outside will not harm...



The paper air filter plus the impossible to find Dutch / German air filter cover. Some say it was mandatory due to regulations, some say it was added to keep the filter elements dry in the relative wet climate in the Netherlands / Germany. However, in the UK, these air filter covers weren't mounted (I would expect them there as well).

I have a few sets of new air filters, including the extra tube for the power jet carburetors.

Also found a box with another CB72 in parts, it's a complete "in between model", in between '61 and '62. Next to my incomplete '61 model, a tough project.

 

[jensen]

I got some time to clean and examine the rest of the bike:



The R/H engine cover cleaned-up well, and will not be painted, unless I really need to.



And unfortunately, the previous owner(s) didn't use a JIS tools either...



Top of the engine cleaned-up well. The old yellow petrol / fuel deposits are also removed with pure alcohol, cleaned up nicely as well. I always clean the engine as good as I can before taking it apart, I hate to wrench on dirty engines.



Talking about cleaning-up, here is some work to be done. Not cracked, and in perfect shape, thus usable as is.



Same here, dirty, but good !



Ouch, all four of them as butchered in the same way.



Some work to do here as well. Mudguards should be painted, because one of the PO's did a paint job with a paintbrush (both mudguards).



And some sort of grease, but I can't get it off, no matter what I try...





Hmm, rusty parts due to a battery leakage somewhere in the past. The same reason why the tool box is rusted badly, I'm afraid.



Detail picture, has to be painted, frame and mudguard.



Hmm, maybe send them to G-man to be fixed. I have a NOS pair somewhere, but a new seal and oil will be mandatory.



Chain is also on the list to be replaced. I'll look for an 520 O-ring conversion. A stainless steel bolt isn't original either, have to be replaced as well.

 

[jensen]

Boxes of the C78 parts located as well:





Engine is already completely disassembled in the past.



And the Buco windshield in original package .

 

[ballbearian]

I'm simply overwhelmed at all that treasure!

You should be able to get a kilo of the Bilt Hamber Deox-C powder from the UK much easier. Makes 20 liters.

The LH switch is unmarked and used for High/Low beam here. The RH only had a starter button. No winkers back then in the US. My winkers and switch are "custom" on my CA78.

I recommend using the later undercut engagement dog transmission parts, if possible, they do shift nicer. My CA78 has the straight cut ones and I occasionally do miss a shift if not careful to use "authority" as Bill S says.

Having a few off-set cotters for the trans shafts are needed to set it up right.

Oh, I do have a set of rear footpeg brackets for the CB, if you want them.

 

[jensen]

Oh, I do have a set of rear footpeg brackets for the CB, if you want them.

Thanks for offering these, maybe later in the project.

 

[jensen]

An upgrade, at least for the CB72, maybe also for the C78, The wire harness is gonna be build from scratch, including a few add-ons like the brake switch for the front brake cable.



Other add-ons I'm thinking off are (CB72):

- side stand kill switch
- LED winkers with (only the bulb replaced)
- running lights
- oil temperature sensor
- oil pressure sensor
- 12V connector for GPS
- USB connection
- .....

 

[stl360+450]

The wire harness is gonna be build from scratch, including a few add-ons like the brake switch for the front brake cable.

Is this something you typically do with your builds, e.g., will you do this with the 450 builds also?

This is a timely consideration for me as I've been thinking of building a harness for my CB360. I've actually had issues with the original harness on two of my bikes previously and it seems like a weak spot for vintage bikes, although you obviously have secondary reasons with the inclusion of new features.

 

[jensen]

Over time, I always run into problems with the old harnesses, especially between the headlight and frame, the flexible part. The shielding gets hardened, and eventually will damage the internal wires. Or the quality of connectors are not what it used to be, or moisture took it's tall on the copper wires.

Normally I use the original wire harness, partly "undress it", replace the bad parts, sometimes add some extra wires for extra ground positions and re-use it by add a new shielding and tape where needed.

In this particular case I want to add functionality, thus from scratch.

 

[ballbearian]

like the brake switch for the front brake cable.

Honda used an 'in-cable' F brake switch like this on the CT90's of the early '70's, later switching to the lever mounted switch. I'm not sure I'd like the structural integrity of the cable sheathing/housing to be compromised in any way. I had a failure from an oil fitting on a reproduction clutch cable on my CA95 that required replacement due to binding when the oil fitting cracked.

 

[ballbearian]

I do find a need to monitor the charging during use on these bikes and simply add this to an extended battery charger cord running under the tank forward. It is a USB adapter. They are cheap, $15 and I will get some more, I already have 3. If I could only find a way to have it easily visible and somewhat hidden at the same time.

It makes sense to 'build in' this capability, especially since it does not change the looks of the bike or it's original controls, which I like.

 

[jensen]

Honda used an 'in-cable' F brake switch like this on the CT90's of the early '70's, later switching to the lever mounted switch. I'm not sure I'd like the structural integrity of the cable sheathing/housing to be compromised in any way. I had a failure from an oil fitting on a reproduction clutch cable on my CA95 that required replacement due to binding when the oil fitting cracked.

The ones I use are originally for the CB450 K1, and, until today never gave any issue's on my builds. I have an old one, and open it up to see how it is constructed....

 

[EzPete]

I do find a need to monitor the charging during use on these bikes and simply add this to an extended battery charger cord running under the tank forward. It is a USB adapter. They are cheap, $15 and I will get some more, I already have 3. If I could only find a way to have it easily visible and somewhat hidden at the same time.

It makes sense to 'build in' this capability, especially since it does not change the looks of the bike or it's original controls, which I like.

If all you're looking for is the DC output to the battery, it's really easy to splice in a 3-wire mini voltmeter (red/black to hot/ground and the third wire to the lead you want to check voltage from). These can be found as small as 5x15mm with a multitude of mounting options and can be tucked away practically anywhere. They're also so cheap you could probably get one for all your bikes for $40 total.

 

[Ribrickulous]

Like the title says, a restoration of a CB72 from 1966 and a C78 from 1964 (late dream), both original Dutch / German versions, with winkers etc.

View attachment 31733
.

Dropping in to say I’m incredibly jealous of all of those parts bins! Organization to the max!

 

[EzPete]

Is this something you typically do with your builds, e.g., will you do this with the 450 builds also?

This is a timely consideration for me as I've been thinking of building a harness for my CB360. I've actually had issues with the original harness on two of my bikes previously and it seems like a weak spot for vintage bikes, although you obviously have secondary reasons with the inclusion of new features.

Car, Truck or now MC - I've always rebuilt the harness for anything 30+ years old. Fuel, Oil and air are rough on older wiring, plus the component technology available today greatly exceeds that of years past. This allows for stuff like converting most of the low-draw control wiring to 22ga silicone wire that'll be lighter, smaller and more flexible. You can also change terminal connectors/blocks, etc as those are almost always degraded by now.

If you're just replicating an existing harness, it's really an easy process - you get real good with a soldering iron and can eyeball terminal type and size in your sleep by the time you're done, however, it's a good kind of mindless work for a rainy day in a shop. Pull the old harness, clean it up, then lay it out on a table top and strip the loom. I like to start at the battery/reg/rec/alternator flow and just follow the juice from there. Personally, I like to add two ancillary ground stops and two switched hot 12V female bullets (one at the head tube, one behind the reg/rec) to be there for future accessory wiring. That way you don't ever have to cut into the harness again to add anything and you know that each wire end to end is clean and you have two extra grounds just in case. If you wan to get real particular, you can color code all the terminal blocks (L/R DC/AC, etc.) On my CX's, I'm running everything DC through red blocks, anything AC comes through white blocks, male terminal direction reversed as well. Makes it pretty much impossible to accidentally cross the streams which would totally melt the ignition components on these bikes. Honda also did a lot of things very modular and you can sometimes drop connections altogether and just wire direct runs. The only real difficulty is sourcing components/wiring. There's some good stuff on Amazon, and also total garbage.

 

[ballbearian]

If all you're looking for is the DC output to the battery, it's really easy to splice in a 3-wire mini voltmeter (red/black to hot/ground and the third wire to the lead you want to check voltage from). These can be found as small as 5x15mm with a multitude of mounting options and can be tucked away practically anywhere. They're also so cheap you could probably get one for all your bikes for $40 total.

Not a bad idea. Since I find that once I put it on, it tends to stay because it's just so useful, because of maintaining charge on bikes that don't get ridden enough. I don't like to clutter a vintage with a bunch of gadgetry but something like that could be tucked down behind the bucket when not used or put a magnet on it to stick to the bars when monitoring is needed. This rig comes off super easy and uses the charger pigtail. The USB is handy for Nav stuff, but I don't need that often, unfortunately not enough longer rides.

 

[jensen]

Dropping in to say I’m incredibly jealous of all of those parts bins! Organization to the max!

It takes a little more time to organize, but saves lots of time when searching for something. However, I neglected it for a few years (life got in the way), and it was a hell of a job to fix that.

If you're just replicating an existing harness, it's really an easy process - you get real good with a soldering iron and can eyeball terminal type and size in your sleep by the time you're done, however, it's a good kind of mindless work for a rainy day in a shop. Pull the old harness, clean it up, then lay it out on a table top and strip the loom. I like to start at the battery/reg/rec/alternator flow and just follow the juice from there. Personally, I like to add two ancillary ground stops and two switched hot 12V female bullets (one at the head tube, one behind the reg/rec) to be there for future accessory wiring. That way you don't ever have to cut into the harness again to add anything and you know that each wire end to end is clean and you have two extra grounds just in case. If you wan to get real particular, you can color code all the terminal blocks (L/R DC/AC, etc.) On my CX's, I'm running everything DC through red blocks, anything AC comes through white blocks, male terminal direction reversed as well. Makes it pretty much impossible to accidentally cross the streams which would totally melt the ignition components on these bikes. Honda also did a lot of things very modular and you can sometimes drop connections altogether and just wire direct runs. The only real difficulty is sourcing components/wiring. There's some good stuff on Amazon, and also total garbage.

Normally, I use the original wire harness as a start, and go from there. Most wires in a used harness are still in good shape, depending on the overall state. I cut out the bad parts and replace with it with parts of other harnesses, this way the harness stays as close to original. For this CB72 I like to go one step further and add extra functionality as well. I also like to add relays for headlight (including high / low beam). I won't forget the stator either by replacing the wires for heat-resistant ones, and make them longer for connection directly to the voltage regulator / rectifier without any extra connectors in between.

 

[jensen]

For voltage control and battery status, I was more thinking this direction:

Gammatronix Ltd

Electronic Ignition systems and Battery Monitors for Cars Bikes and Motorcycles. 12 volt and six volt negative and positive earth.

gammatronixltd.com

Or, mounted in the gauge, and go for this one:

Gammatronix Ltd

Electronic Ignition systems and Battery Monitors for Cars Bikes and Motorcycles. 12 volt and six volt negative and positive earth.

gammatronixltd.com

I have the 5 mm led build in my CB450 K0, instead of the Hi-beam indicator, works well.

 

[jensen]

Finally, some time to disassemble the CB72. Last week, I sprayed penetrating oil on the bolts of the rear mudguard and taillight bracket to make sure they will come loose easily, but first the rear wheel has to come out. btw, I got the crank from G-man, it took only 4 days shipping time, and the best part is that the customs let this package through without any additional costs.



First I had to take off the licence plate:



Why do people always take a "shortcut" with electrical work ?



I also found out that the reflector isn't the original one (from Stanley), but a German version from Hella. Luckily, I have a few lying around.



Funny, and different from the CB450 K0, the bolt that holds the chain guard is mounted from the inside ?



Tomorrow night, the rear mudguard and if possible, other things as well.

 

[ballbearian]

Any new bearings in that crank?

 

[jensen]

Any new bearings in that crank?

Well, I have to ask G-man, but if G-man says is good to go, I'm sure he replaced everything what wasn't in spec.

 

[jensen]

Tonight further with the break-down, After removing the rear mudguard, I tried to remove the rear shocks, but after almost 60 years the rubbers are what they used to be, soft and pliable. I always use a small puller for this kind of jobs.



And this is what left of the rubbers:



After removing the rear shocks, it was time to take out the rear fork. When lubricating upfront, the axles come out smoothly:



Until it comes out of both side. Makes it also easier to clean for the plater, this way you push out the old hard grease



After that, it's an easy job:



Cleaning is necessary to see if everything is all right, no cracks, no damages, everything seems to be ok.



To take the weight of the engine, I remove as much as possible heavy parts, such as kick-starter cover, generator, starter motor etc. Starting with the front sprocket. Always a pleasure to work with the tools where they designed for.



Another great tool is the rear wheel axle of the C78 dream, it has the same thread as the rotor, so I use a spare as a rotor puller:



Starter gear seems in a healthy state as well:



Starter chain is ok-isch, no need to replace anyway:



And finally the starter motor out:



Generator / stator are in healthy shape, actually, everything looked if someone cared well and maintained the bike. All threads are good, not one stripped thread, everything is well lubricated, and the PO even used locktite on some bolts.

 

[stl360+450]

I like that tip to grease the swingarm prior to disassembly, makes a lot of sense, but also would not feel natural to me to grease before taking apart.

I apologize if I missed it in an earlier post, but is this a bike you have ridden over the years or once that you've been waiting to work on after purchasing. I'm curious about the marks on the rotor, too, and whether or not they came from the PO. Color would definitely help me identify timing marks more easily.

 

[jensen]

I like that tip to grease the swingarm prior to disassembly, makes a lot of sense, but also would not feel natural to me to grease before taking apart

Old, hardened grease is difficult to remove, new grease is easy to remove, particularly the narrow holes are clogged easily by the old grease. I had to push real hard to squeeze the first few times.

I apologize if I missed it in an earlier post, but is this a bike you have ridden over the years or once that you've been waiting to work on after purchasing.

I mentioned it in the beginning of this thread:

A few years later I stumbled upon this CB72, since it was not running, I put it on aside too, thinking I would come to it when the children were grown up. Meanwhile, I got another, perfect CB72, running, completely stock and I ride that bike regularly. My oldest son is now living in Germany, so I think it's time to wipe the dust off these bikes and restore them in a way that I won't hesitate to ride them, meaning make them reliable and ready for the coming decade's.

I'm curious about the marks on the rotor, too, and whether or not they came from the PO. Color would definitely help me identify timing marks more easily.

After taking the side cover off, I was surprised as well, another sign that the bike was well maintained by someone who knew want he / she was doing.

I never heard this bike running, however, it has compression. Like I said in other threads, I will always take an engine apart, before riding it. I want to be sure that everything is all right, no hidden surprises. That's'also the reason why I swap the crank, by another one. The crank that will come out will be taken apart. I have more trouble with the CB72 cranks then the CB450 cranks, I'm in need of a few tricks from G-man. My other CB72 is stock, original paint and a good example of how the bike should look like. Yes, the engine was apart, and restored technically, but that was years ago (the Honda305 website period).

This bike will be upgraded, technically, and to make it more comfortable, make it more reliable for longer rides (at my age).

Meanwhile, I put every dirty part in a box, to take it with me to work and clean it in the parts washer,

 

[jensen]

Today, I took a day off to enjoy the beautiful weather. This morning I started with my morning walk (+/- 9 km), and was overwhelmed. Spring has started, in an explosion of colors and wonderful scents.




I decided to do some studying, so I took the CB400F and drove to the beach (1-hour ride). Found a nice beach club and started reading, enjoying a nice cup of fresh ginger tea.




After refreshing my memory, I made a long walk on the beach (+/- 15 km) until it was time to go home for dinner.

 

[stl360+450]

How are immigrants from the US viewed in the Netherlands? Might need to look into that.

 

[jensen]

Started to prepare the engine for removing, and the first real step is the oil. I did replace the old oil with fresh oil, and as can be seen, the oil is still transparent.



Points cover off, points are old, and burnt a bit



Vin plate says 1967, but I doubt that, it might be as well a 1966.

 

[jensen]

How are immigrants from the US viewed in the Netherlands? Might need to look into that.

Why ? US is a very nice country too. But, to answer your question, I know several US-citizens that very happy here. However, they have to get used to the size, everything here is smaller (according to them).

 

[stl360+450]

Why ? US is a very nice country too. But, to answer your question, I know several US-citizens that very happy here. However, they have to get used to the size, everything here is smaller (according to them).

I was just trying to say that your pictures make the Netherlands seem like a really nice place to live!

 

[jensen]

Well, when you have time, you could come over to see for yourself. My oldest son lives abroad, so I have a room available. Pick a bike and I'll show you around.

 

[ballbearian]

Vin plate says 1967, but I doubt that, it might be as well a 1966.

That's nice to have that plate. We didn't get frame plates until about 1970.

 

[stl360+450]

Well, when you have time, you could come over to see for yourself. My oldest son lives abroad, so I have a room available. Pick a bike and I'll show you around.

If I make it over to Europe someday, it would be a pleasure to look you up. Failing that, seeing these pictures of the local scenery (and motorcycles) is always a satisfying experience.