1974 CL360 front wheel spoke lengths?

KnuckleBustingTwin

KnuckleBustingTwin

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Would anyone happen to know the spoke lengths (I believe there are two different lengths) on the front wheel on a '74 CL360 Scrambler with a drum brake? I've been looking all over this info but can't seem to come up with it?

Also ... is it safe to assume that the '74 CL350 Scrambler had the same front wheel setup (drum brake & spokes) as the CL360?

I appreciate the help ... Bill
 
ancientdad said:
Did you compare the part numbers for the hubs at somewhere like cmsnl.com? That would tell you. I mean, I could do it for you but... "teach a man to fiche..." :lol:

https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/forums/index.php?threads/8
Click to expand...

I actually use CMSNL all the time ... they are pretty lacking in specific information though ... I have searched other forums & sites as well, but haven't been able to turn up that specific bit of info ... but thanks to your tip, I think I managed to turn it up at least one of the spokes sizes at Southern Honda looks like 9x154 ... assuming the 9 refers to inches but not sure of the 154 ... will check out the CL350 to see if the parts are the same ..

Thanks Bill

After further review ... CMSNL does actually show the spoke sizes ...

Annotation 2020-07-09 190535.jpg
 
I'm thinking the numbers are metric, but 9mm must be the nipple size as it can't be the diameter of the spoke (think 8mm bolt in the handlebar clamps) so I suppose the length is 154mm
 
ancientdad said:
I'm thinking the numbers are metric, but 9mm must be the nipple size as it can't be the diameter of the spoke (think 8mm bolt in the handlebar clamps) so I suppose the length is 154mm
Click to expand...

Yep ... as I thought about it a bit more, I realized that all things Japanese are in MM ... and a 9mm spoke length didn't add up ... 154mm for the length makes more sense ... it would seem that the spoke lengths are different between the CL350 and the CL360 as well ... so not interchangeable ... the best info I could find between CMSNL and David Sliver Spares, leads me to believe that the spokes on that wheel are each 153.5mm ... though I am wondering about the accuracy of that because most wheels with drum brakes seem to have two different lengths of spokes ... For example - the CL350 shows spoke lengths of 9x165 and 9x165.5 ...

perhaps sensei Steve (66Sprint) could weigh in ...

this is what CMSNL shows:

Annotation 2020-07-09 190535.jpg

Southern Honda does show two different size spokes, 154mm and 153.5mm ... I suspect that would be the correct one, but I am seeing so many different listings out there ... it's confusing ...

I've even poured through the CL360 Service Manual, and can't find a reference to spoke size anywhere??

I did some rough measuring on the original wheel I purchased (cut and threw away the spokes without measuring them first, I could kick myself!) ... and used this online spoke length calculator I found to see what it said ... and I am getting a completely different number ... see below ...

Spoke Length Calculator - CL360 .jpg

Here is the link to the calculator ... http://earlymotor.com/leon/misc/html/spoke.htm#hints

I remain as confused as ever ... ??

Thanks Bill
 
66Sprint said:
Nope....I have to look those types of specs up too......
Click to expand...

Steve ... any idea where I could find that info? I've poured through websites, forums, and the service manual but I can't seem to turn up a definitive answer ... closest I got was on the Southern Honda parts site which shows 154mm and 153.5mm ... do you think that sounds accurate?

I am just kicking myself for not measuring them before I cut them out of the rim and threw them away ...

Thanks Bill
 
That SOUNDS about right....Hard to be 100% without measuring out of the wheel assembly as head angle of inners and outers and amount of threading is concealed.....

I find the 153.5 and 154 specs for both the 350 and 360 front 18" CB wheels, so probably correct..... As to the CB vs CL discrepancy, same hubs but 18" vs 19" rims so the 165 and 165.5 spokes make sense for 19" rims......
 
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That's why I chose to never cut spokes out of a wheel. It is fast and easier than unthreading though.
 
Alan F. said:
That's why I chose to never cut spokes out of a wheel. It is fast and easier than unthreading though.
Click to expand...

Definitely a lesson learned! ... I seem to be seeing a few supposed spoke kits on 4into1, Scrambler Cycle, & those guys in Houston, but I am suspect that they are the appropriate lengths ... I have been emailing these sites to get them to commit to the 153.5mm & 154mm lengths but I am getting vague answers back ... I suspect these sites are advertising a bit "broadly" on fitment ... oh well, I'll keep forging ahead!
 
I'm a little surprised that Kevin at Scrambler Cycle is vague. Did you mention VHT when you emailed? He's a sponsor here.
 
ancientdad said:
I'm a little surprised that Kevin at Scrambler Cycle is vague. Did you mention VHT when you emailed? He's a sponsor here.
Click to expand...

I just sent Kevin another note asking for a little more clarification and sent a link to this conversation ... he said the spokes he has listed are the same length.
 
So you mean there's not a half millimeter difference between them? That could easily be ground off after truing (if necessary) if it's only half a millimeter
 
Part # = 97716-52147-10
Part Description = SPOKE B (9X153.5) - (replaces 97716-52147-1)
Model Count = 9
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport


Part # = 97392-52148-1
Part Description = SPOKE B (9X154)
Model Count = 4
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL72 1962 250 Scrambler 250 Street
CL77 1966 305 Scrambler 305 Street



So the lengths of the CB350 and the CB360 appear to be the same as the CL360 based on this info.
Why honda had different spokes I am not sure. Sometimes the short portion of the spoke can be longer or shorter and need a different part number.


But here's the deal. The CL360 uses the same rim and the same hub as the CB350 and CB360 so I see no reason why the spokes from those models would not work on the CL360 also. Honda does weird stuff sometimes that doesn't always make sense.


Part # = 44701-235-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL - (replaces 44701-286-003)
Model Count = 12
CB175-K3 1969 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL175 1968 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL200 1974 200 Scrambler 200 Dual Sport
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport



Part # = 44601-286-010
Part Description = HUB, FRONT WHEEL - (replaces 44601-286-000)
Model Count = 15
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL350 1968 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K2 1970 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K3 1971 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K4 1972 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K5 1973 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
SL350 1970 350 Motosport 350 Dual Sport
 
i'd like to know what size (18" or 19") corresponds with what part # rim. i haven't been able to find that info.


-So spoke part #97716-52147-10 is for a 36 hole rim that goes with a drum brake hub part # 44601-286-010, but is that a 18" or 19"? there will be longer spokes on a 19" rim than a 18".




CL350's mostly have a 36 hole 19" front drum setup, while CB360 K0, CJ360, CB350's and CL360's seem to have 36 hole 18" front drum setup. But all these seem to use the same hub? Gets confusing.... It'd be nice to know what spoke part # goes with which size rim and drum hub. I would guess that part # 44701-235-003 is a 36 hole 18" rim. I hope i'm making sense.
 
i already looked at that, it doesn't help because they list that part # for both CL350 and CB350 which have different size rims.
 
19"
Part # = 44701-290-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL (19)
Model Count = 17
CB175-K1 1971 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K4 1970 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K6 1972 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K7 1973 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CL175-K3 1969 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K4 1970 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K5 1971 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K6 1972 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K7 1973 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL350 1968 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K2 1970 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K3 1971 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K4 1972 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K5 1973 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
SL175 1970 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport
SL175-K1 1971 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport
SL350-K1 1971 350 Motosport 350 Dual Sport

18"
Part # = 44701-235-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL - (replaces 44701-286-003)
Model Count = 12
CB175-K3 1969 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL175 1968 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL200 1974 200 Scrambler 200 Dual Sport
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
 
ancientdad said:
So you mean there's not a half millimeter difference between them? That could easily be ground off after truing (if necessary) if it's only half a millimeter
Click to expand...

See that's the kind of thing I find useful ... I've been killing myself trying to accommodate for that half mm not realizing that I could grind it off ... Thanks Dad!
 
KnuckleBustingTwin said:
See that's the kind of thing I find useful ... I've been killing myself trying to accommodate for that half mm not realizing that I could grind it off ... Thanks Dad!
Click to expand...

NO, NO, NO!
The half mm DIFFERENCE in length is due to the difference in spoke HEAD ANGLE between inner and outer spokes......
The ~12.5 mm difference between sets is because of the 1/2" radius difference between 18" or 19" rims.......PLEASE PHONE!....************
 
ScramblerCycle said:
19"
Part # = 44701-290-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL (19)
Model Count = 17
CB175-K1 1971 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K4 1970 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K6 1972 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB175-K7 1973 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CL175-K3 1969 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K4 1970 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K5 1971 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K6 1972 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL175-K7 1973 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL350 1968 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K2 1970 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K3 1971 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K4 1972 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K5 1973 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
SL175 1970 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport
SL175-K1 1971 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport
SL350-K1 1971 350 Motosport 350 Dual Sport

18"
Part # = 44701-235-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL - (replaces 44701-286-003)
Model Count = 12
CB175-K3 1969 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL175 1968 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL200 1974 200 Scrambler 200 Dual Sport
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
Click to expand...

thanks for that info!
 
AFAIK, All CB 175's had 18" front wheels, so that's four errors already.......The K3 CL 175 DID have a 19" front, but at least some later CL175 K's had 18's.......

I'll post the corrected list as soon as I re-verify by part numbers.....
 
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ScramblerCycle said:
19"
Part # = 44701-290-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL (19)
Model Count =

CB175-K3 1969 175 Super Sport 175 Street 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CB175-K4 1970 175 Super Sport 175 Street 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CB175-K6 1972 175 Super Sport 175 Street 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CB175-K7 1973 175 Super Sport 175 Street 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CL175-K3 1969 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport 19" front with 3.00 x 19 tire
CL175-K4 1970 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport 18" front with 3.75 x 18 tire
CL175-K5 1971 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport 18" front with 2.75 x 19 tire
CL175-K6 1972 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CL175-K7 1973 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport 18" front with 2.75 x 18 tire
CL350 1968 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K2 1970 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K3 1971 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K4 1972 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
CL350-K5 1973 350 Scrambler 350 Dual Sport
SL175 1970 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport 19" front with 3.00 x 19 tire
SL175-K1 1971 175 Motosport 175 Dual Sport 19" front with 3.00 x 19 tire
SL350-K1 1971 350 Motosport 350 Dual Sport

18"
Part # = 44701-235-003
Part Description = RIM, FRONT WHEEL - (replaces 44701-286-003)
Model Count = 12
CB175-K3 1969 175 Super Sport 175 Street
CB350 1968 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K2 1970 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K3 1971 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB350-K4 1972 350 Super Sport 350 Street
CB360-K0 1974 360 CB360 Street
CJ360T-76 1976 360 CJ360T Street
CJ360T-77 1977 360 CJ360T Street
CL175 1968 175 Scrambler 175 Dual Sport
CL200 1974 200 Scrambler 200 Dual Sport
CL360 1974 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
CL360-K1 1975 360 Scrambler 360 Dual Sport
Click to expand...

Just checking the 175's. eight out of eleven were incorrect.....
You can't always trust "related fitment" lists, you NEED to verify on the specific bike's parts fiche......
 
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