1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess

Been busy with a lot beside fun on the bike but here are some pic of the tank. Still some rust in the bottom f the valleys but better every time I drain and take a look. I am also shake rattle and rolling the tank with some small deck screws in it.

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Pics of the side covers.

Original red but the one on the right has has quite a bit of JB Weld repair. The blue set are off a K6 or K7 but fit if needed and I am not that wedded to making it original, it already has a gauge set off a K6 or K7.

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Anyway this what I have to work with sheet metal wise.

Oh yeah narrowed down my choice of rear brake hub. started a little disassembly of the hub that came off the bike and found the when I removed the snap ring. Probably happened when the chain broke. Nothing left to salvage on this wheel.

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RobMan said:
Been busy with a lot beside fun on the bike but here are some pic of the tank. Still some rust in the bottom f the valleys but better every time I drain and take a look. I am also shake rattle and rolling the tank with some small deck screws in it.

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IMG_5173[1].jpg
IMG_5174.jpg
IMG_5175.jpg




Pics of the side covers.

Original red but the one on the right has has quite a bit of JB Weld repair. The blue set are off a K6 or K7 but fit if needed and I am not that wedded to making it original, it already has a gauge set off a K6 or K7.

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While having evaporust or whatever solution in the tank, have you noticed any pinhole leaks anywhere?

I believe most of it will need to be stripped down to bare metal, seeing as rust can travel under paint once it starts.

We can either guide you through the repainting process, or I could paint them for you. Just let me know what you decide. Shoot me a PM and we can discuss the details
 
Thanks you for the offer of either assistance or doing the work and much appreciated. First step on the tank is to get it fully de-rusted and make sure there are no leaks before I decide which way to jump. No leaks noticed yet but I was planning on filling the tank with gas and letting it sit for a while to see if any leaks develop before investing any time or money on painting it.
 
RobMan said:
Thanks you for the offer of either assistance or doing the work and much appreciated. First step on the tank is to get it fully de-rusted and make sure there are no leaks before I decide which way to jump. No leaks noticed yet but I was planning on filling the tank with gas and letting it sit for a while to see if any leaks develop before investing any time or money on painting it.
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Here is an example of how rust can hide under paint. The back of my original side cover seemed innocent - just a few rust spots showing here and there. After using a wire wheel, it seemed that the entire underside was covered. Not saying that is what’s going on with yours, just something to look out for.

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RobMan said:
Want to give a shout out to @JustinF25 about hooking me up with an awesome seat for my build. It looks great, vinyl feels like new and foam feel like new. I still can't get over the caliber of the people in this forum and makes me humble and look for opportunities to pay it forward.
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My time to give the shoutout to @RobMan for paying it forward by surprising me with a couple of cool, vintage 450 DOHC stickers arriving by mail yesterday. They are awesome man, thank you!!!
I met Rob well over a year ago when ancientdad and I were at the Meltdown motorcycle show. This was near the beginning of Rob’s project and it has been great to follow along with his dedication to this build and to also witness what a contribution his project has made to the VHT community. Big thanks to Rob and everyone else that makes VHT the truly special place that it is!
 
12ozPBR said:
My time to give the shoutout to @RobMan for paying it forward by surprising me with a couple of cool, vintage 450 DOHC stickers arriving by mail yesterday. They are awesome man, thank you!!!
I met Rob well over a year ago when ancientdad and I were at the Meltdown motorcycle show. This was near the beginning of Rob’s project and it has been great to follow along with his dedication to this build and to also witness what a contribution his project has made to the VHT community. Big thanks to Rob and everyone else that makes VHT the truly special place that it is!
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Yep, it was great hanging out with him, Rodney and all your local friends at the last Meltdown show ever (apparently). We have a great group here for sure.
 
boddy said:
Well there goes my surprise package :mad: . Thanks in advance Rob ;), mine are probably stuck in the Canadian postal system...
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Ooops. Yeah, crossing the border resulted in the added delay. That's why I didn't say anything yet myself, wasn't sure who else was on the list. But thanks Rob, from me too.
 
Saw these cool retro stickers on Ebay for cheap and was only going to order a couple but with the shipping decided to order a few more to share with the some of the DOHC 450 members here on VHT who have been so incredibly helpful with my bringing my beast back to life. I should have ordered more so sorry I did not have enough stickers for everyone, I was not trying to play favorites. :cry:

I would appreciate knowing that you have received and this is just my way of saying thank you and having a bit of fun.
 
Spotted this while I was changing oil on my wife's car. I have the tank sitting up on a couple of buckets and was doing what I had hoped was the last Rust 911 soak when I saw there was about a 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of one of the buckets. Tank had been sitting a couple of days.


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Dripping about 1 drop every 5 seconds or so. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

If the tank is clean need to pressure test it with low air pressure and bubble solution. Not really unexpected so not too upset just gotta consider next steps.
 
Worked on the tank this afternoon and found a prior repair done by a PO that looks like solder close to the area that is leaking.

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Rigged up a pressure test rig using some cut inner tube and a cap over the filler opening and blew some air in the tank. Need to get a better seal over the fill cap opening but enough I found the first leak marked by blue arrow and the old patch marked by yellow arrow..

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After that I used the borescope and looked in the tank and there was still crud in the seams so I decided to break out the cheap electric pressure washer and flush out the tank seams as best I could. Looked in the tank again and seams much better. Mom gave me a one hour warning for dinner so I decided to cap everything up and refill with the Rust 911. No pictures but when I refilled the tank I found three more leaks in that same seam area and one was a tiny stream. Darn! I then thought about an old piece of an Oyltite-Stik that had found its way in my tool box from when I worked on F-16s. You use it as temp fix for leaking fastener heads and such. It appeared to be dried as hard as rock but to my surprise after cutting off an end of the stick it was still fairly pliable in the center and I was able cut off a few bits and patch the 3 worst leaks so the tank doesn't just drain into the bucket. Anyway now I need to decide how I want to approach the repair after I can do a proper leak test. If it is just along that one seam area I may try the JB TankWeld that Brody suggested but if I find other areas leaking I will have to consider lining the tank. If I decide to do the lining I need to get the dents removed first. I also have the issue of flash rust if I don't treat the tank. Decisions and issues oh my. BTW here is a link to the Oyltite-Stik if anyone is curious. Small enough to go in the bikes tool kit as a just in case.

 
RobMan said:
No pictures but when I refilled the tank I found three more leaks in that same seam area and one was a tiny stream.
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That stinks. Maybe silver solder would be better than the JB product, I dunno. Or a different tank...

RobMan said:
I then thought about an old piece of an Oyltite-Stik that had found its way in my tool box from when I worked on F-16s.
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Very cool — did not know that! Around here, I have occasionally been treated to the sight and sound of an F-15 on the move. There used to be an Indian restaurant at the top of a hotel overlooking nearby runways at Lambert where one would occasionally see them take off or land while enjoying the lunch buffet.
 
boddy said:
If you have a radiator repair service nearby maybe they could pressure test the tank and solder the leaks.
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That was my thought as well, but radiator shops are getting fewer and fewer as time goes by. I don't even have one in my area anymore, the last one closed up in the 9+ years since we moved here.
 
The last radiator shop I know of closed a number of years ago here as well. I believe I have a handle on pressure testing it using what I got or getting an expansion plug that will fit in the filler cap opening. I don't want to put to much pressure on the tank and possibly split a seam and only need a couple of pounds over pressure to check for leaks so some leakage around the cap is acceptable. I am a fair hand with soldering copper pipe and wiring so will give that a shot first. Of course the litmus test will be when I fill the tank with gasoline.
 
As meticulous as you seem to be and as far as you have taken this tank, considering a liner is not the end of the world. I’ve used Caswell liners with great success. The key is to have a well prepped tank which it sounds like you do. You may never get every single bit of crud out of the seams. Do the best you can. As long as you dry the tank quickly and thoroughly after derusting you shouldn’t have to worry about flash rusting. I have used a partial bottle of rubbing alcohol as a rinse to displace the moisture and immediately followed it by directing compressed air via a flexible hose to blow dry any remaining moisture out any available opening. Flipping, turning, shaking, and inspecting with a light for 30 minutes or more to get it completely dry. At times I’ve also used a heat gun set on low to further gently blow dry the interior. In my experience there may be some light staining that occurs but you shouldn’t see any rusty buildup.
Once the tank is completely dry it should be fine to sit for a period of time until you are ready to coat. I’ve let them sit for weeks myself. Whatever liner you choose to use will have its own prep treatment that will take care of any minimal flash rust that might have occurred since following the steps above. Caswell properly applied to a well prepped surface is extremely durable and will heavily coat into the all the seams curing the leaks you have.
 
If I find more leaks than I have already. a liner does sound like the next step to try and save the tank. The only issue is I do want to see if I can get the dent out a little more oon the left side before lining it. Hopefully I will have some time to do another leak test this afternoon.
 
Had some time so pressure tested the tank again and could not find any more leaks. Came up with a better option for sealing at the filler neck. Round piece of inner tube and push the cap down until it locks.

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Soldered three leaks, wire brushed and cleaned with acetone for prep. used handheld propane torch and some plumber solder. Ugly but holding and not in visible areas so no worries. Pressure tested about 5 PSI after repairs which are holding and could not find any more leaks. Blue arrows mark the repairs with the last picture a little blurry.



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Refilled with the Rust 911 and see if it offers to leak over the next day or so. I will try to get back to the rear wheel tomorrow.
 
wentwest said:
I guess the real test is gas. It's able to leak in places where water won't.
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Exactly, gas molecules are more slippery than water. I am probably going to have to line the tank but want to give a shot at just patching the leaks. I was checking on replacement tanks on ebay but most look in worse shape than mine. I have seen repop 350 tanks from India but no 450 tanks which is a shame.
 
OK a little closer to the lining the tank. Checked this morning and no evidence of leakage from the areas I patched but I did find a super tiny seep at the rear seam of the tank where the seat would sit. I still intend to do another flush with the pressure washer and then another pressure leak test but I bet I find more leaks if I flush more crud from the seams and sure that a liner will be in order. I have been looking at the different liners and probably will go with @12ozPBR's suggestion Caswell as it appears to be thicker and simpler to apply. I do have a question on how people handle the crossover tubes to keep them from getting plugged up. I checked Caswell's web site for pricing and they are in the process of moving to a facility in Victor New York. You can pre-order now but not expected to start shipping until after October 6th.
 
Por-15 makes a good product as well.

For the crossover, use pipe cleaners. The set time is pretty quick so you kind of use that as a round brush for the liner as you’re withdrawing it. It’ll get the sides coated and you just keep slowly rotating the tank until it sets up without dripping or clogging
 
EzPete said:
Por-15 makes a good product as well.

For the crossover, use pipe cleaners. The set time is pretty quick so you kind of use that as a round brush for the liner as you’re withdrawing it. It’ll get the sides coated and you just keep slowly rotating the tank until it sets up without dripping or clogging
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Thanks for the tip on pipe cleaners and that makes sense. I will take a look at the Por-15 as well. I guess the the main thing is to follow the directions.
 
Drained the Rust 911 and did another round of using the pressure washer in the tank which flushed out a bit more crud and then pressure testing. In addition to the seep I found yesterday I found two more tiny seeps along the seam. I believe the only way to salvage the tank is to use tank liner. The other benefit will be I should have a rust free tank to work with.

Seeps are at the two larger bubbles and I am sure there would be more if I filled with gasoline. Gonna Keep the rust 911 in it until I get ready to seal the tank and then will prep it.

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I would appreciate knowing that you have received and this is just my way of saying thank you and having a bit of fun.
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Hi Rob, coming back from a business trip yesterday (Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria) I found an envelope at my desk at home (the envelope came in Thursday). Thanks, really appreciated !
 
jensen said:
Hi Rob, coming back from a business trip yesterday (Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria) I found an envelope at my desk at home (the envelope came in Thursday). Thanks, really appreciated !
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You are welcome and glad to see your surgery is not slowing you down. Hope the weather allows for some riding this weekend.
 
boddy said:
For the cross over tubes I used a piece of bicycle brake cable in a drill and just ran it up the tubes a couple of times. Even if the liner starts to set the wire will clean out the crossover tube.
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This is the method I use for clearing the crossover tubes. For liner application I plug each crossover with a short piece of tubing capped with a 1/4-20 bolt. Once the liner is applied and you have rotated the tank for even coverage, take the tubing and caps off, then insert the wire on the drill. Just make sure you run the drill in the direction of the wound cable (don’t unwind the cable!). I usually “ream” the crossovers out several times each with the wire on the drill a few minutes apart ensuring they are clear. Finally, when I am completely done handling the tank I make sure to position it for drying so that no remaining leftover liner can seep into the crossovers.
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions on the best way to handle lining the tank. With everyone's help I am sure it will be successful. Just finished installing the rear hub bearings and seal with no issues so one more thing off the list. I want to get the rascal standing on it own two wheel soon. The rear rim is in decent shape so I will use as is until I am ready ride and then will mount a new tire. I will definitely need to get a new front rim but that is down the road as well.
 
Piecing together more parts temporarily to make sure I remember where things go and to see what is missing. Got the brake shoes om the backing plate so slid the back wheel in place so I could get it up on the center stand. When I did go to put it on the center stand I decided this darn thing has to have some lead weights embedded in it somewhere. I might have to start working out so I don't embarrass myself trying to get it up in front of anyone. Took a couple of attempts but I got it but heck no gas tank or gas which will add another 30 pounds or so so yep gonna have to start working out or get a lighter bike. :D



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Took a picture before I got it off the jack but is slowly starting to look like a motorcycle.

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RobMan said:
Piecing together more parts temporarily to make sure I remember where things go and to see what is missing. Got the brake shoes om the backing plate so slid the back wheel in place so I could get it up on the center stand. When I did go to put it on the center stand I decided this darn thing has to have some lead weights embedded in it somewhere. I might have to start working out so I don't embarrass myself trying to get it up in front of anyone. Took a couple of attempts but I got it but heck no gas tank or gas which will add another 30 pounds or so so yep gonna have to start working out or get a lighter bike. :D
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I had this problem with my CB450, but mine came with no handle on the left side to lift it with. If you haven't installed that handle yet, do it now! It really matters.

But working out and getting in shape does matter because these 450's are pretty heavy and top-heavy, too. I've been doing that ever since I retired almost 12 years ago, and it really makes a big difference not only in strength but in your ability to not get hurt doing all sorts of twisting and crawling and getting on and off the floor.
 
RobMan said:
Piecing together more parts temporarily to make sure I remember where things go and to see what is missing. Got the brake shoes om the backing plate so slid the back wheel in place so I could get it up on the center stand. When I did go to put it on the center stand I decided this darn thing has to have some lead weights embedded in it somewhere. I might have to start working out so I don't embarrass myself trying to get it up in front of anyone. Took a couple of attempts but I got it but heck no gas tank or gas which will add another 30 pounds or so so yep gonna have to start working out or get a lighter bike. :D



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Took a picture before I got it off the jack but is slowly starting to look like a motorcycle.

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Hey Rob I totally understand having some difficulty with getting the bike on the center stand. A veteran of this forum (Steve) 66Sprint explained to me the easiest way.

Left hand on the left handlebar grip, right hand gripping the left side grab bar at the top of the shock, right foot on the center stand, your body facing the bike. In one fell swoop, stomp down on the center stand while you look left and pull the bike as it's at the top of it's height from the center stand.
 
I am just spoiled by the S90 being so darn easy to get up and down that even though I thought I was ready for the difference the reality was at another level.
 
Minor progress while waiting for the Caswell tank sealer I worked on cleaning up the front and rear turn signals to make them presentable. I will probably buy new ones later but trying to use what I got at the moment. Anyway when I got the bike the rear turn signals had been modified to accommodate the super cool sissy bar and was missing some of the stock hardware so I had to modify a bit to mount them and of course then didn't light up at first. Just like zombies need more brains Vintage Hondas need more grounds. Got the fender grounded and finally got the turn signals working with one small issue, the turn signal instrument indicator light only came on when the switch was on the left but not the right. After a moments thought I realized it was because I had used an LED bulb there. I will swap the bulb with an incandescent to confirm later.
 
RobMan said:
Minor progress while waiting for the Caswell tank sealer I worked on cleaning up the front and rear turn signals to make them presentable. I will probably buy new ones later but trying to use what I got at the moment. Anyway when I got the bike the rear turn signals had been modified to accommodate the super cool sissy bar and was missing some of the stock hardware so I had to modify a bit to mount them and of course then didn't light up at first. Just like zombies need more brains Vintage Hondas need more grounds. Got the fender grounded and finally got the turn signals working with one small issue, the turn signal instrument indicator light only came on when the switch was on the left but not the right. After a moments thought I realized it was because I had used an LED bulb there. I will swap the bulb with an incandescent to confirm later.
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Rob, I have used the Caswell liner a number of times and it is excellent. One caution is it can be very thick out of the can and doesn’t pour and flow well when inside the tank. When you open the can if it is really thick I believe there are some instructions supplied that suggest thinning it up to 10% before using.

I think I used acetone as the thinner and it worked well and it just evaporates off as the liner sets up.
 
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