1969 CL175 project

Chief

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So I'm looking at buying a 1969 CL175 project bike, I am finding several variations of it , one with the high mount front fender ( scrambler, I think) and another with the lower chrome front fender, otherwise seem to be the seem bike. but both called CL175. What is the correct model name for each? I is in the Candy Blue color, serial #'s as follows: engine- CL175E-1014148 and frame # CL175-1014123.
 
Chief said:
So I'm looking at buying a 1969 CL175 project bike, I am finding several variations of it , one with the high mount front fender ( scrambler, I think) and another with the lower chrome front fender, otherwise seem to be the seem bike. but both called CL175. What is the correct model name for each? I is in the Candy Blue color, serial #'s as follows: engine- CL175E-1014148 and frame # CL175-1014123.
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Sounds like you have a CL175K0 based on the numbers.

1759012636520.png

The CL175K3 was the only year with the high front fender, it came out right around the time the SL90 and SL350K0 did and it was the precursor to the SL175K0 in 1970.
 
Chief said:
So I'm looking at buying a 1969 CL175 project bike, I am finding several variations of it , one with the high mount front fender ( scrambler, I think) and another with the lower chrome front fender, otherwise seem to be the seem bike. but both called CL175. What is the correct model name for each? I is in the Candy Blue color, serial #'s as follows: engine- CL175E-1014148 and frame # CL175-1014123.
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Be aware if it is a 1968 Sloper CL175KO it is a one year only model. So it needs to be complete as possible. If not finding parts is the first challenge. The second is the cost of those parts when found. It could have been titled in 1969 if it sat in the show room for awhile before it sold.
I restored the exact bike quite a number of year ago and it was an ongoing search for the correct parts. If your not concerned about those sort of things then carry on. :)

This is what a 1968 CL175K0 looks like.

P1070119.JPG
 
Flyin900 said:
Be aware if it is a 1968 Sloper CL175KO it is a one year only model. So it needs to be complete as possible. If not finding parts is the first challenge. The second is the cost of those parts when found. It could have been titled in 1969 if it sat in the show room for awhile before it sold.
I restored the exact bike quite a number of year ago and it was an ongoing search for the correct parts. If your not concerned about those sort of things then carry on. :)

This is what a 1968 CL175K0 looks like.

View attachment 50372
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Beautiful bike. Now you're scarin me !!! Do you have links to a correct parts catalog and shop manual?
 
There wasn’t a 1967 or 1966 CL175 they were CL160’s a totally different bike and motor. The 1969 motor became an upright motor so again a different bike. Exhaust is unique to the 1968 CL175 no other model will fit, same with a huge amount of other parts.
If the bike isn’t pretty well complete your in for a costly restoration if that is your end game. Air filters are no longer available and no reproduction ones made. They come up from time to time at $300 plus if your lucky to find them.
Being in Canada when you find parts they will be south of the border or offshore in US dollars which adds up really fast.
Mine was a 5 year project to find the correct parts and replace existing parts with better new ones. Some examples are I paid well over a grand Canadian for the exhaust system. The NOS seat was $450 too. I found the last NOS front fender at CMSNL for around the same price as the seat.

I don’t wish to discourage you but be aware of the downside to a partially complete bike. If you have a picture of the bike we can verify if it is a Sloper motor or an upright. The upright motor 1969 CL175's onward were more plentiful and parts maybe easier and cheaper to source.
 
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Flyin900 said:
There wasn’t a 1967 or 1966 CL175 they were CL160’s a totally different bike and motor. The 1969 motor became an upright motor so again a different bike. Exhaust is unique to the 1968 CL175 no other model will fit, same with a huge amount of other parts.
If the bike isn’t pretty well complete your in for a costly restoration if that is your end game. Air filters are no longer available and no reproduction ones made. They come up from time to time at $300 plus if your lucky to find them.
Being in Canada when you find parts they will be south of the border or offshore in US dollars which adds up really fast.
Mine was a 5 year project to find the correct parts and replace existing parts with better new ones. Some examples are I paid well over a grand Canadian for the exhaust system. The NOS seat was $450 too. I found the last NOS front fender at CMSNL for around the same price as the seat.

I don’t wish to discourage you but be aware of the downside to a partially complete bike. If you have a picture of the bike we can verify if it is a Sloper motor or an upright. The upright motor 1969 CL175's onward were more plentiful and parts maybe easier and cheaper to source.
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Thank you for the good advice and I know what you're talking about as to exchange on the dollar, it usually adds about 40% to the cost plus shipping seems to have increased big time. I am somewhat fortunate as I live only about 15 miles from the border and I can get parts shipped to a depot there and then go pick them up, saves a little on freight costs. I attached a few pics, I believe it's a sloper engine. The exhaust is in great shape and after sifting thru stuff, the only thing missing is the air filters., fingers crossed.CL175-1.jpgCL175-2.jpgCL175-3.jpgCL175-4.jpg
 
Apparently we have the same view of motorcycles as therapy.... :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

5u90B48.jpg
 
Chief said:
Thank you for the good advice and I know what you're talking about as to exchange on the dollar, it usually adds about 40% to the cost plus shipping seems to have increased big time. I am somewhat fortunate as I live only about 15 miles from the border and I can get parts shipped to a depot there and then go pick them up, saves a little on freight costs. I attached a few pics, I believe it's a sloper engine. The exhaust is in great shape and after sifting thru stuff, the only thing missing is the air filters., fingers crossed.View attachment 50671View attachment 50672View attachment 50673View attachment 50674
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Well done on the bike and it looks like many of the key parts are there. The air filters will be a slog in finding and not cheap when you do, yet those are something to work on.
I did help my buddy Joe do a 1968 CL175 Sloper and I gave him a new correct seat cover and strap that he didn't use. It maybe available for sale if your interested when you get to that point in the restoration.

The rear taillight is incorrect but the black bracket maybe correct. :) Says the stickler for correctness.
 
Flyin900 said:
Well done on the bike and it looks like many of the key parts are there. The air filters will be a slog in finding and not cheap when you do, yet those are something to work on.
I did help my buddy Joe do a 1968 CL175 Sloper and I gave him a new correct seat cover and strap that he didn't use. It maybe available for sale if your interested when you get to that point in the restoration.

The rear taillight is incorrect but the black bracket maybe correct. :) Says the stickler for correctness.
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Thanks for reply, so was their two versions of 1969 engines, earlier being the sloper that I have and a later vertical version? What K designation is mine? As far as the taillight, I believe I have the correct version as well that came with the bike, and I would definetley be interested in that seat cover, let me know , although it will be some time before I get to it. The frame and other parts have been powder coated black, the side covers and tank are already painted, not perfect but will do, by the previous owner, so that helps. Thanks for all your help.
 
Your bike is a 1968 CL175K0 as a guess as I noted in my previous explanation these were a one year only bike. It wasn't uncommon for bike to not be sold for a year of more and sit at the dealer. If yours was sold in 1969 rather than 1968 it was common for the bike then to be registered as a 1969 the year it was sold and not the year of manufacturer. Your taillight is not correct for the bike someone has grafted that assembly onto the bracket. It looks cockeyed in the mount.
Look at my taillight as my bike was a 100% correct bike with all parts either NOS or original as the factory supplied when it was built. I spent 5 years tracking down NOS parts to replace correct but poor condition parts that were on the bike when I bought it.

Here is what it looked like when I brought it home. You can't see it in this picture that some PO cut off the back of the muffler and left a large oval hole for more power and a louder sound. o_O

P1060172.JPG


Here is the correct style of taillight. Yours is a larger square unit from the backside pick in you post.

P1060956.JPG

Another angle.

P1060955 - Copy.JPG
 
So no there was not two 1969 versions of the bike. In 1969 Honda totally changed the motor to an upright style rather than the Sloper style that was used on most of their early 1960's bikes and motors. It comes from the forward lean of the motor in the frame. The Sloper designation is a slang term someone coined as was never a Honda description of their products. Just like the CB450K0 " Black Bomber" was a slang term as Honda never called those bikes by that name.

Here is my 1966 CL77 Scrambler that has a Sloper style motor, as many of these early 60's Honda bikes did use. Once Honda went to the upright motors it was a turn of the page on the old designs and into a more modern era of technology for the company.

P1100354.JPG
 
Flyin900 said:
So no there was not two 1969 versions of the bike. In 1969 Honda totally changed the motor to an upright style rather than the Sloper style that was used on most of their early 1960's bikes and motors. It comes from the forward lean of the motor in the frame. The Sloper designation is a slang term someone coined as was never a Honda description of their products. Just like the CB450K0 " Black Bomber" was a slang term as Honda never called those bikes by that name.

Here is my 1966 CL77 Scrambler that has a Sloper style motor, as many of these early 60's Honda bikes did use. Once Honda went to the upright motors it was a turn of the page on the old designs and into a more modern era of technology for the company.

View attachment 50685
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Thank you very much for the info, I believe you are correct that it is a 1968- K0, so as a 1 year only model, that probably makes it a fairly rare bike. You are correct on the tail light, the restoration had been started by a PO , I do have the correct tail light ,although not in great shape, I can order a replacement lense on line . You build a beautiful bike, I may check with you for advice from time to time, if that's ok.
 
So I have been working at the engine on my '68 CL175, did complete disassembly and have case halves back together. I struggled with the correct way to install the shift drum stopper and the kickstart spring and still not sure if I installed them correctly. I attached a couple of pics, does this look correct to you?
 

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Chief said:
So I have been working at the engine on my '68 CL175, did complete disassembly and have case halves back together. I struggled with the correct way to install the shift drum stopper and the kickstart spring and still not sure if I installed them correctly. I attached a couple of pics, does this look correct to you?
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I'm not overly familiar with the K0 sloper version of the 175, but based on the parts fiche it looks like you have the detent arm/roller #10 on the wrong side of #13. I'm guessing the roller should be riding on the "star" shift plate on the end of the drum, not behind it.

1765057715367.png
 
ancientdad said:
I'm not overly familiar with the K0 sloper version of the 175, but based on the parts fiche it looks like you have the detent arm/roller #10 on the wrong side of #13. I'm guessing the roller should be riding on the "star" shift plate on the end of the drum, not behind it.

View attachment 53316
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I thought to that the roller wheel would ride on the star, but even after reinstalling as you suggest , the roller wheel still rides behind the star. According to the parts diagram I have all the pieces and not missing anything. If I look at the K3 CB175 parts diagram attached , I am missing some pieces, I attached a pic of the K3 setup that is on a donor motor I have.
 

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Chief said:
I thought to that the roller wheel would ride on the star, but even after reinstalling as you suggest , the roller wheel still rides behind the star. According to the parts diagram I have all the pieces and not missing anything. If I look at the K3 CB175 parts diagram attached , I am missing some pieces, I attached a pic of the K3 setup that is on a donor motor I have.
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But the K3 version is different, being on the vertical engine.
 
Chief,

This is a close as your going to get to a CL175K0 shifter. The 1969 and onward upright engines are a different motor in many respects. Your bike is a 1968 CL175K0 not a 1969 model which would have been an upright motor if your ownership really was correct.

Stick with your 1968 CL175K0 parts diagrams and forget the CL/CB upright stuff as many parts are different. This was a transition time from the early 60's Sloper motors to the modern upright designs.

That idler wheel rides in the indents cut into the shift drum outer metal plate. Not behind and not in front of the part.


P1090394.JPGP1090396.JPG
 
Flyin900 said:
Chief,

This is a close as your going to get to a CL175K0 shifter. The 1969 and onward upright engines are a different motor in many respects. Your bike is a 1968 CL175K0 not a 1969 model which would have been an upright motor if your ownership really was correct.

Stick with your 1968 CL175K0 parts diagrams and forget the CL/CB upright stuff as many parts are different. This was a transition time from the early 60's Sloper motors to the modern upright designs.

That idler wheel rides in the indents cut into the shift drum outer metal plate. Not behind and not in front of the part.


View attachment 53323View attachment 53324
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Thanks for the reply and the great photos. I know the K3 is a different engine and most parts are not interchangeable, I did use the kickstart shaft from the K3 in my K0 though and was my main reason for using this donor K3 engine. I think I will need to source a new idler wheel arm as I think mine has been bent up from past owners. Thanks again for your help.
 
Chief said:
Thanks for the reply and the great photos. I know the K3 is a different engine and most parts are not interchangeable, I did use the kickstart shaft from the K3 in my K0 though and was my main reason for using this donor K3 engine. I think I will need to source a new idler wheel arm as I think mine has been bent up from past owners. Thanks again for your help.
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Good that your able to use the odd part from the K3 motor. I know that many other items are different, so it is doing a comparison. I have a Canadian made custom cross reference for Honda parts.That tells me which part by the Honda number fits which models.
 
Flyin900 said:
Good that your able to use the odd part from the K3 motor. I know that many other items are different, so it is doing a comparison. I have a Canadian made custom cross reference for Honda parts.That tells me which part by the Honda number fits which models.
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Is there a way to get a copy of that cross reference ? You have any Canadian parts sources that may have that idler wheel arm?
 
Chief said:
Is there a way to get a copy of that cross reference ? You have any Canadian parts sources that may have that idler wheel arm?
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Here is the part you need from a reputable US seller I can vouch for his products. The part is correct as I cross referenced it to a 1968 CL175K0 among other earlier models. FWIW I would jump on it if that is what you need as parts are getting scarcer as time goes by with these bikes.

www.ebay.ca

NOS Honda CA160 CA175 CB160 CL160 CL175 Gear Shift Drum Stopper 24430-216-000 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NOS Honda CA160 CA175 CB160 CL160 CL175 Gear Shift Drum Stopper 24430-216-000 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.ca

ZEDDER ENTERPRISES CROSSOVER HONDA GUIDE INFO:

The company is called Zedder Enterprises. I bought the software about 15 years ago or more and they seem to still be in business. Here is a link to the Honda side of the business. It seems they also have other manufacturers software too.
I received it as a downloadable file back then and it may still be the same setup today too.
I no longer have any parts for the 175 model. Since it is a rarer model you likely going to have to search all the usual sites for the part.


 
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He also has a used one for a lot less on his site too.

If you part is bent it should be pretty obvious. If you had the full shift drum out for work or cleaning. is it installed correctly and seated properly in the case?
 
Flyin900 said:
He also has a used one for a lot less on his site too.

If you part is bent it should be pretty obvious. If you had the full shift drum out for work or cleaning. is it installed correctly and seated properly in the case?
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I have it installed correctly now, I believe. Should I be able to shift thru all five gears at this assembly stage, it does not seem to do this smoothly, although the shift drum/arms all seemed to be functioning smoothly before I assembled the engine cases.
 
Getting the '68 CL175 into final assembly (hoping) but it doesn't seem to shift between all gears . I got a new clutch cable today , should I be able to shift thru all gears without the clutch . I have the clutch off again and can shift from neutral into one gear but no further. I am hoping I won't have to remove the engine and completely disassemble it again. It all seemed to be in order when I assembled it initially. I attached a few pics, is their anything that looks wrong.68-1.jpg68-2.jpg68-3.jpg
 
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Chief said:
Thank you, I'll give it another try after reassembly
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Got the clutch reassembled, not any better. The star does not turn through the gears when I try shifting. It's not that the star wheel is tight, it just doesn't turn thru all the gears. The wheel that moves the star gets stuck on top and not in a gear (hollow in the star). I'm afraid it's likely going to require complete disassembly, something must be wrong with the transmission gear positions. Oh well, I'm retired and have the time. Any help is appreciated.
 
That’s with the wheel turning while you shift?

If the transmission drive shaft isn’t turning, it won’t allow the dogs to disengage so you only get one gear up, one gear down from neutral.
 
EzPete said:
That’s with the wheel turning while you shift?

If the transmission drive shaft isn’t turning, it won’t allow the dogs to disengage so you only get one gear up, one gear down from neutral.
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I think that's what is happening, so that means a teardown to fix the issue in the transmission, right?
 
Chief said:
I think that's what is happening, so that means a teardown to fix the issue in the transmission, right?
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Yeah. If - while the wheel is turning and driving the sprocket forward - you’re unable to shift into 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd something is misaligned in there, I did that one time by accidentally flipping 1st gear backwards on the spline. Shifted into 1st fine, wouldn’t go to second.
 
EzPete said:
Yeah. If - while the wheel is turning and driving the sprocket forward - you’re unable to shift into 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd something is misaligned in there, I did that one time by accidentally flipping 1st gear backwards on the spline. Shifted into 1st fine, wouldn’t go to second.
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I think that may have happened here, the bike was in the middle of a rebuild and given up on by a previous owner, when I bought it. I was hoping to avoid a teardown, however if it has to be done, it will be done. I'll chalk it up as a learning experience. Thanks for your help/advice.
 
68 donor first gear.jpg68 user first gear.jpgI think that may have happened here, the bike was in the middle of a rebuild and given up on by a previous owner, when I bought it. I was hoping to avoid a teardown, however if it has to be done, it will be done. I'll chalk it up as a learning experience. Thanks for your help/advice.

EzPete said:
Yeah. If - while the wheel is turning and driving the sprocket forward - you’re unable to shift into 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd something is misaligned in there, I did that one time by accidentally flipping 1st gear backwards on the spline. Shifted into 1st fine, wouldn’t go to second.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. I have mine apart and I do believe my first gear is in backwards. I have a donor engine with the same transmission and if I compare with my user engine first gear is in backwards. I attached a pic of each, what do you think? The top pic is the donor engine.
 
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The clean spots, like the one the arrow is pointing to, is proof that gear is on backwards. The clean spots are evidence of the dogs from the opposite gear rubbing on the gear prior to full engagement when it was installed the other way.

Things like THIS are why we always ask for lots of pictures, and had we seen that earlier it would have saved you another teardown.

1773619006711.png
 
All too familiar. Those parts diagrams just don’t have the detail, but the ever so slight difference in width is keeping those dogs from releasing on 1st. I chased that issue all over the place.

Bright side - it doesn’t require waiting on parts to fix and you get a shiny badge for the “been there, done that” trophy wall.
 
EzPete said:
All too familiar. Those parts diagrams just don’t have the detail, but the ever so slight difference in width is keeping those dogs from releasing on 1st. I chased that issue all over the place.

Bright side - it doesn’t require waiting on parts to fix and you get a shiny badge for the “been there, done that” trophy wall.
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Thanks Ez for your comment earlier on having first gear on backwards, it is exactly what happened on mine. I have fixed the problem, bench shifted it and seems to work fine- problem solved.
I initially did the teardown to replace the kickstart shaft, which I borrowed from the donor engine I bought. I noticed the hook thingy on the shaft that the kickstart spring hooks to points differently than on my original shaft, pics attached of each. Is it important which way it points and if need be can it be knocked off its spline and reorientated. Hope that made sense.68 kickstart spring catch 1.jpg68 kickstart spring catch 2.jpg
 
Chief said:
Is it important which way it points and if need be can it be knocked off its spline and reorientated. Hope that made sense.
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I understand your thinking and I'm sure the shaft orientation is important, but I can tell you that Honda would not have sold a product that might need to be driven apart to be re-oriented correctly. Installation position/orientation would have been their focus.
 
ancientdad said:
I understand your thinking and I'm sure the shaft orientation is important, but I can tell you that Honda would not have sold a product that might need to be driven apart to be re-oriented correctly. Installation position/orientation would have been their focus.
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Thank you, and I agree. It was just that the two shafts are identical other than the direction of the hook, they can only be installed one way. My donor engine is a CB and this is one of the few parts that will swap to my CL. It works , so I will leave well enough alone.
 
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