1968 Bomber - Ken Ives Red

To restore or Not to Restore that is the Q

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

Jonathan

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Location
Broom, Nr Alcester
Dear Vintage Honda Twins Community,

Chris Saxby who many of you may already know from this Forum has been providing valuable guidance over the lockdown period on my restoration of a 1966 Black Bomber.

During this time I have also acquired a 1968 'Red' Ken Ives Bomber with its original Leicester Plate.

Both Chris and I are still debating how to proceed with this particular bike. Do we leave as is ? , carry out a sympathetic restoration or go the whole hog and do a full restoration ?

We thought we would reach out to you all and share this bike and seek your views as to what should be done to it.

Thoughts ?

Kind Regards,

Jonathan.
 

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Jonathan, thanks for posting this here at VHT. There are many members here with Bombers and plenty of interest in them, and I'm sure they will find this bike very intriguing.
 
By "sympathetic restore" I'm thinking what I call a "survivor restoration" where everything mechanical is brought to spec and the rest of the bike is cleaned up as well as possible to retain the original finish and accumulated patina of age.
 
If it runs ok as is or maybe just needs the usual periodic maintenance I might lean toward leaving it as is. If more is required I like Jim's definition of a sympathetic restore.
 
I think this ones down to you Jonathon. The Ken Ives Red is a UK bike and it’s unlikely it had much fame in the US or elsewhere. Probably not many were sold in the UK either but as you know Lord Litchfield had one at the same time as the Earl of Denbigh had his black bomber.
Both Chris and myself have restored ours to a good standard, mine mainly because it was in such poor condition.
There is always a discussion if original is better than restored but who is it important to? My son always says “ Dad, do it for yourself”
Good luck whichever way you go. It is a rare and historic bike.
 
Thanks Ray,

Chris has mentioned that I should get in touch with you :)

I think that I am steering towards keeping the bike in its original state, but cleaning up parts etc that need it. Maybe replacing certain bits that really do need to be replaced only. I will reach out to you seperatley as I am also restoring a 1966 black bomber and this is from the frame up.

Regards

Jonathan.
 
Hi Ray ,Knew you'd know your stuff. For the history there were actually two bombers for sale from the same guy. I could see some of the original parts were on the other bike that sold at the auction e.g. Girling rear shocks. It was purchased by a friend of mine and had sat in his garage since the auction. As you say a rare and historic bike & now Jonathan has purchased I'm sure we will all help him do what he wants with it for the next generation of bomber owners. (Weev'e done our bit:)) Regards Chris.
 
Chris, in my view , the red just needs to be put back to the Ken Ives style which is basically just changing parts over. It already has what I found to be the hardest part to get which is the correct chrome front mudguard. Not sure if the red tanks were painted or the original Honda. If painted then the air filter covers are easy to do.
Jon mentioned having some parts for the 66 fabricated. He is best contacting me before he does that. I will also message him today.
 
Hi Ray, The bike is still at my house till Jonathan can arrange collection cos of all this covid stuff.The front guard is incorrect but Jonathan has managed to get a NOS original chrome one and also a chrome headlight shell at great expense as you can imagine. Think the tanks may well have been painted red (Ford Monza Red) here in the UK as the idea came from my friend Pete Wilson of Nip on Motorcycles here in Chesterfield as our postings with his letter to me over on the other site? . Although the seat is side hinged the seat cover is later K series but the bike is a 1969 so was it supplied as original? The strap is just pop riveted underneath certainly not right so Jonathan will need to explore this and look for any tell tale holes in the seat base for a buckle bolt. There are no holes in the cover itself so should be easy to find out things.Regards Chris.

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Hi Chris / Ray,

The front mudguard I have is only painted silver at the moment - I will need another as both the Ken Ives and 66 BB require replacements. The ORY Ken Ives was first registered 6th August 1968 (4 former keepers)

regards

J.
 
Well, even if that one wasn't his at one time, I did find this showing him and the lovely Britt Eklund sitting on one.

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Lord Litchfield and the Red Bomber

Chris / Ray,


The picture below and the link here:

https://www.pinterest.at/pin/21532904438535759/

Clearly shows a red bomber - you can see the side panels are painted (I am assuming with the red strips) - drop bars, but I reckon the mudguards are silver..... (Compare to lower fork cover) and the headlamp / speedo cowling I think is red......

This appears to go against the chroming element ?


af1ded005819f0f2c3ac2c59179349fd.jpg
 
My Red bomber has registration ORY 373G (taking the RY is Leicester) which is where Ken Ives dealership was. The bike with Lord Litchfield was UYY (The YY denoting Central London) - So was the UYY 88F (a '67 bike) an actual Ken Ives ? Or another dealership copying ... Or A ken Ives machine shipped to London ? Who knows ?
 
Jonathan said:
My Red bomber has registration ORY 373G (taking the RY is Leicester) which is where Ken Ives dealership was. The bike with Lord Litchfield was UYY (The YY denoting Central London) - So was the UYY 88F (a '67 bike) an actual Ken Ives ? Or another dealership copying ... Or A ken Ives machine shipped to London ? Who knows ?
Click to expand...

I thought the info on the pedestrian slicer might help. It was pretty easy to find that picture, and I also saw a BMW he apparently owned as well along with a few cars during the search.
 
Doubt it would be Lord Lichfields unless he had more than one. Here's another pic of him with UYY88F.

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Ok. Here is the missing link!
It is generally being assumed that the bike Lord Litchfield is riding is a Ken Ives Red. It’s not.
In Nov 1967, going by memory only at this stage, Honda introduced a new CB450 SuperSport model at the Earls Court London annual motorcycle show. They produced a sales leaflet for it. The new model was the one Lord Litchfield is pictured on. It was registered on 1st January 1968 to a south London dealer together with a black bomber sold to his cousin on the same day, the Earl of Denbigh. Both gentlemen being cousins to our present QueenElizebeth the 2nd. A picture of them collecting their bikes was taken and kept at the dealers premises.
I have the black bomber that was sold to the Earl of Denbigh but the Red bomber sold to Lord Litchfield has never surfaced.
The Red I have was also registered in London on 1st January 1969 so I believe this also was the Honda version and not the Ken Ives one and mine is restored according to the Honda issued sales brochure.
Will try and post more info tomorrow.
 
For the history-According to the actual Bonhams auction Johnathans bike only ever had 2 owners father and son.Thats now 4 with John (friend of mine who bought it) and now Jonathan. When Bonhams sold it the existing owner also had another bomber for sale at the same auction pictured below NAX794F which was purchased by him from USA in 1971. This bike I believe has the original Girling shocks on , possibly chrome chain guard and maybe the original seat that was on Johnathans bike.My guess is this owner also painted the sidepanels on Jonathans bike & possibly headlight shell? to match this bike.The headlight shell may well be chrome underneath?? .If its red that'll throw a right spanner in the works lol.
 
Forgot to add pic(Give me a spanner anyday)

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It may be that Bonhams could advise more info on the seller details.Reason I say this is I sold a Douglas dragonfly on auction a few years ago. Next thing I knew is I was contacted by a guy from Morehampton motor museum who told me they had bought it.Offered me a free visit if I wrote him all the history. Never got round to this but was glad it went to a place where others could enjoy seeing it.
 
RayfromtheUK said:
I think this ones down to you Jonathon. The Ken Ives Red is a UK bike and it’s unlikely it had much fame in the US or elsewhere. Probably not many were sold in the UK either but as you know Lord Litchfield had one at the same time as the Earl of Denbigh had his black bomber.
Both Chris and myself have restored ours to a good standard, mine mainly because it was in such poor condition.
There is always a discussion if original is better than restored but who is it important to? My son always says “ Dad, do it for yourself”
Good luck whichever way you go. It is a rare and historic bike.
Click to expand...

So Ray in your opinion could this be the last surviving Ken Ives reds with a genuine Leicester based reg no. -I don't know of any others do you?
 
We don’t know how many survived or indeed were sold but yes it is likely it’s yours and Jonathan’s so far on the assumption that mine was a new official model. But, given the close relationship Ken Ives had directly with Honda it is likely the Honda models were subcontracted to Ken to build anyhow and the numbers could be very very low. Maybe just mine survived????
I am not sure if I got Ken Ives address from you or elsewhere but I wrote to him asking if he would kindly give an interview to talk about his red bikes. My understanding was his health was not good and in any event he had never publicly
discussed the Red.
 
Could well be Honda subcontracted them all for Ken Ives to build. Sales were very poor as we just wouldn't accept high reving bikes that didn't leak oil !!!
I was told by the guy that owned my bike it was in a crate & kept by a distributor in Hebden Bridge and not first sold until 1973 (YDK316L) .I have now got it re-registered back 1967 (RWF106E) as I didn't like the yellow numberplate.I think its a good bet Jonathans is the only survivor actually sold by Ken Ives in his own Leicestershire area.
 
Could it be the seeds for the new CB450 super sports model with red tank launched in 1967 originated from Pete Wilson when he visited Ken Ives in 1966. Here is a copy of Peter's letter to me we had it on the old site so may as well have it here.:)

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