A Bomber barn find

Do you have someone who can follow in a recovery vehicle or is there a recovery service available you can call if needed. Sucks would not be a strong enough word if something were to happen to something you have put so much into/
 
wentwest said:
So a pair of Shinko 712's on the rims, 100/90x19 on the front, 110/90x18 on the rear, new tubes and rim strips. I put things back together yesterday and today and took it around the block. What a difference! The buckboard ride is gone, things are much smoother and in control. Now I have to take the big ride down the hill into Berkeley, loaded down with locks, cables and such to secure it if it poops out somewhere away from home. I doubt it would last long parked on a street in Berkeley. It's going to take some time to rely on it, and then pull the K4 engine and put in the K0 engine. This seems to be a lifetime project.
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I like my Shinkos too, and I wish I'd gone up one size to the ones you bought. But they handle really well.
 
The tach needle doesn't move when I start the engine, but does after a minute of so or if I tap the side of the instruments with a knuckle. After that it seems to be slow to rise and hardly every gets over 2500 rpm even with the engine revving higher. I figure the needle shaft bushing is dry and needs some lube, but how do I get in there? I really don't want to pry up the chrome oval trim piece. Is there another way?
 
There's a bushing the cable drive rides in that gets gummy with dirt, etc. Drip some oil on it and the work the drive with an old cable end or similar back and forth, when right the drive spins fairly freely. Don't flood the drive, you don't want a bunch of oil inside the housing.
 
I'm still here, still messing around with the Bomber, but not much. I discovered that the bolt that holds the front brake stay won't tighten properly at the fork end because the threads in the fork are stripped. The fork leg itself seems to work OK for the suspension, so the solution might be some sort of renewal of the threading. I suppose I could have a machinist drill it out a bit larger and then tread it (and enlarge the hole in the brace itself, too), or use some sort of insert. Which is the better plan?
 
wentwest said:
I'm still here, still messing around with the Bomber, but not much. I discovered that the bolt that holds the front brake stay won't tighten properly at the fork end because the threads in the fork are stripped. The fork leg itself seems to work OK for the suspension, so the solution might be some sort of renewal of the threading. I suppose I could have a machinist drill it out a bit larger and then tread it (and enlarge the hole in the brace itself, too), or use some sort of insert. Which is the better plan?
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I know you've been here, your always helpful comments give you away :giggle:

That's a tough one, but aside from replacing the lower leg that seems like the only way around it. Unless anyone feels like a heli-coil would be adequate in that situation.
 
wentwest said:
I'm still here, still messing around with the Bomber, but not much. I discovered that the bolt that holds the front brake stay won't tighten properly at the fork end because the threads in the fork are stripped. The fork leg itself seems to work OK for the suspension, so the solution might be some sort of renewal of the threading. I suppose I could have a machinist drill it out a bit larger and then tread it (and enlarge the hole in the brace itself, too), or use some sort of insert. Which is the better plan?
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A Heli-coil should be fine there. It's not a frequently removed bolt and the loading on the bolt is radial instead of clamping. Torque is "guttentite"
 
Whether tension or shear, if the thread integrity was strong enough directly into the aluminum, it will be some 30%+ stronger with a heli-coil insert. As a minimum, the L/D ratio should start at 1.5. That is, with an 8mm bolt, thread depth should be 12mm. That ratio is used relating to strength priority so the bolt breaks before the thread of the parent aluminum is pulled out. A general guideline.

High tightening torque is not required but guttentight, ist gootenuf.
 
So, after another long recess, I'm (maybe) back to the Bomber. I got a chain breaking and riveting tool to properly flare the pins, followed the instructions and then measured the O.D. of the pins and they were now bigger than the OD of the rest of the chain pins. Is there any way I can check the flaring before I start the process of getting the engine back into the frame?
 
wentwest said:
So, after another long recess, I'm (maybe) back to the Bomber. I got a chain breaking and riveting tool to properly flare the pins, followed the instructions and then measured the O.D. of the pins and they were now bigger than the OD of the rest of the chain pins. Is there any way I can check the flaring before I start the process of getting the engine back into the frame?
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Cam chain?
 
I am assuming you are talking about the cam chain. Can you take a picture of the pins showing how much they are flared. That would let people have a better idea they have been flared enough.
 
RobMan said:
I am assuming you are talking about the cam chain. Can you take a picture of the pins showing how much they are flared. That would let people have a better idea they have been flared enough.
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Yes, as well as checking to see if the link moves freely after riveting the pins. This is how mine looks

450 cam chain staked.png
 
OK, yes it is the cam chain. The master link I got had solid rivets, no hole in the end and no dimple. KInd of like a master link that uses a clip except there are no grooves around the posts to accommodate a clip.
 
wentwest said:
OK, yes it is the cam chain. The master link I got had solid rivets, no hole in the end and no dimple. KInd of like a master link that uses a clip except there are no grooves around the posts to accommodate a clip.
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Those are the type that are supposed to be pressed on, I personally don't feel comfortable with using them. 4into1 has the rivet-style masters and IIRC they're not too far from you.
 
ancientdad said:
Those are the type that are supposed to be pressed on, I personally don't feel comfortable with using them.
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The press-on links must still be peened, though, right? I think I've used both styles on my CB450 in the past, but I don't have a picture documenting which style is on there right now. The hollow pin ends are easier to deal with.

As you said earlier, the link must still move freely after the link has been secured, otherwise the link should be replaced.
 
4into1 is 22 miles away. It's sort of disappointing because when you get there you end up ringing a doorbell, get buzzed in, someone hands you a bag and off you go. It's not a store; it's a warehouse with an office.
 
wentwest said:
4into1 is 22 miles away. It's sort of disappointing because when you get there you end up ringing a doorbell, get buzzed in, someone hands you a bag and off you go. It's not a store; it's a warehouse with an office.
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I've got a couple of emails from them promoting "Bike Night" events. Don't suppose you've checked that out? Just curious.
 
stl360+450 said:
As you said earlier, the link must still move freely after the link has been secured, otherwise the link should be replaced.
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Flexing the chain sideways is what was done on bicycle chains, back in the day. More tension on these, so it would probably loosen up on it's own.
 
I was out of town on the Bike Night. Maybe next time?
stl360+450 said:
As you said earlier, the link must still move freely after the link has been secured, otherwise the link should be replaced.
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My worry is much more that I didn't compress the rivet enough, so the chain can come apart while the engine is running, which would be a disaster.
 
OK, I'm ready. The K0 engine I have rebuilt is ready, I think, to go into the frame. Before I do that I'd like to install the starter motor and drive, I guess the crankcase side covers and then just crank it with the starter and see if I'm getting any compression. No attempt to start it, in fact no carbs at all and no connection to the frame yet. Is that a crazy idea? Or something everyone does but I didn't know about it? I'll try to get lubrication on all the cams, and I'll fill the crankcase with oil, no spark plugs at all.
 
wentwest said:
OK, I'm ready. The K0 engine I have rebuilt is ready, I think, to go into the frame. Before I do that I'd like to install the starter motor and drive, I guess the crankcase side covers and then just crank it with the starter and see if I'm getting any compression. No attempt to start it, in fact no carbs at all and no connection to the frame yet. Is that a crazy idea? Or something everyone does but I didn't know about it? I'll try to get lubrication on all the cams, and I'll fill the crankcase with oil, no spark plugs at all.
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It's not crazy at all, the only issue might be having oil in it while still on the bench but if you get some help putting the engine in the frame after checking it out then you'll be fine. I've used the electric start to check compression on the bench many times before, and watching the exhaust camshaft for oil flow before closing it up and putting it in the frame is smart IMO.
 
Doesn't sound crazy to me.

I guess some prefer to mount a partially assembled motor to reduce the weight, while others place the frame over the motor (presumably without oil), but your way you allows you to evaluate the motor before going to the trouble of mounting it.
 
Thanks for the positive support. I figure I might have to drain the oil out and take off the crankcase covers and the rotor, and maybe even the clutch so we can lift the engine back into the frame. That stuff adds a lot of weight to a job that's already pretty challenging. But finding out after I get it in the frame that there's some problem that forces me to take it out again is far worse.

I'll try to update here as it goes along.
 
Very clean, Bob! Don't engines always look great clean?

Do the k0 valve adjusters have the markings for the eccentric orientation? I'm having a hard time making them out in the picture.

I've worked with those blue plastic crimp bullet connectors, as shown on your stator wiring, and I think it might be a good idea to upgrade. Bullet connectors can be found many places, including Vintage Connections. A ratcheting crimp tool is really nice for those, too.
 
stl360+450 said:
Very clean, Bob! Don't engines always look great clean?

Do the k0 valve adjusters have the markings for the eccentric orientation? I'm having a hard time making them out in the picture.

I've worked with those blue plastic crimp bullet connectors, as shown on your stator wiring, and I think it might be a good idea to upgrade. Bullet connectors can be found many places, including Vintage Connections. A ratcheting crimp tool is really nice for those, too.
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Yes, they do have the marks. I'll double check them, but I know there isn't any interference between the valves and the head. Whether they are on the true setting or the false setting, that I'll check again. Not everything on this engine is truly K0 - the crankcase is, but the top end is a mixture of K0 and some later parts. And good catch on the bullet connectors! Now's the time to get that cleared up. Thanks.
 
stl360+450 said:
I was just referring to the perpendicular T marking on the adjuster itself — I've never noticed those +/- markings before! The k0 cam bearing covers have those??
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Yes they did, and after I posted I realized you were actually referring to the index marks on the follower shafts, which all of them had from the beginning to help with proper orientation.
 
ancientdad said:
Yes they did, and after I posted I realized you were actually referring to the index marks on the follower shafts, which all of them had from the beginning to help with proper orientation.
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That's interesting and I didn't know about that before you pointed out it. This is my favorite part of the forum experience: learning.
 
stl360+450 said:
That's interesting and I didn't know about that before you pointed out it. This is my favorite part of the forum experience: learning.
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I'm pretty sure I never saw the +/- marks before in person, but I noticed it in some pictures over the last few years and found at least that one picture of them in the K0 FSM.
 
jensen said:
I think it's a K1 or later cylinder head, the exhaust threads is M8 instead of M6.
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Yes, I recognized the 5 speed head right away but was looking to see if he had used the K0 cam bearing covers on the 5 speed head, but he did not. Not sure what extra parts he had to work with that may have come from a K0, perhaps he did not have the original K0 cam bearing covers.
 
Well, you're right. It's a K? head. The crankcase is K0, so the serial number is, too, but the top end is later. But this morning, as I was putting the oil pump and clutch on (K0 parts) and tightening the nut on the forward threaded post holding the oil pump, the post just broke off, not at the block but part way up the threads. How do I get that out and replaced. I tried 2 nuts, jammed together, but they both turned. I tried turning only the inside nut with an open end wrench, no luck. Lots of penetrating oil at the base, tried a vice-grip on the threaded stub, so far it just slips and I don't want to go further until I ask if there's some magic way I can extract it.
 
If you are still able to get the two nuts on the stud, put them on and tighten them together. Give it a sharp wrap with a hammer and while holding the outer nut try turning the inner nut while keeping some pressure on the outer nut.

You could also try some heat on the case where the stud threads into.
 
wentwest said:
And, you were right! Heat did it. Sometimes a second mind makes all the difference. Now to find a replacement. That'll be fun.
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You should be able to use an appropriate length 6mm bolt instead of the stud, when K0 engines have Jay's oil pump installed the studs have to be changed to bolts anyway.
 
ancientdad said:
You should be able to use an appropriate length 6mm bolt instead of the stud, when K0 engines have Jay's oil pump installed the studs have to be changed to bolts anyway.
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Caveat - I'd add either a lock washer or a little thread locker too.
 
Good bit of info there. I was going to transplant the Jay's pump from my K4 engine, after I got past making sure the engine was put together properly and back in the frame. You guys made my day already! I'll use a lock washer today, because all I want to do is get it to crank with the electric starter while I check for compression and maybe oil circulation with this antique K0 small diameter pump. No plan to see it run until much later.
 
Just an update - this past week my granddaughter's school had a car show, and she asked me to bring the Bomber. It's only about 6 miles away, but that's about 6 times farther than I've ever dared to ride the beast, but I did it for her. And I made it, both ways! Not the best time or place for a longer first test run - 3 pm on a Friday afternoon on city streets through Berkeley and a bit more is a PITA in a normal car, with lots of traffic lights, more stop signs and pedestrians around the campus, but it kept running and got there, and nothing fell off! Whew!
 
Just read this entire post, really good information and hints. I haven't taken a 450 engine apart since 1976, hope my current 450 (1972) doesn't need any major work any time soon.
Glad you got Bomber back on the road. I had an opportunity to buy one back in the early 80's for $300, in running /riding condition. Oh well....
 
What an interesting thread, all 5 years worth. I’ve just skimmed through it all - it makes my travails with a CB200 and a CB360 seem rather trivial. Well done.

:cool:
 
wentwest said:
Just an update - this past week my granddaughter's school had a car show, and she asked me to bring the Bomber. It's only about 6 miles away, but that's about 6 times farther than I've ever dared to ride the beast, but I did it for her. And I made it, both ways! Not the best time or place for a longer first test run - 3 pm on a Friday afternoon on city streets through Berkeley and a bit more is a PITA in a normal car, with lots of traffic lights, more stop signs and pedestrians around the campus, but it kept running and got there, and nothing fell off! Whew!
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Things we do for love! I can appreciate how apprehensive you must have been in stop and go traffic and awesome you made the run no problem. Hope you got some looks and compliments at the show.
 
wentwest said:
Just an update - this past week my granddaughter's school had a car show, and she asked me to bring the Bomber. It's only about 6 miles away, but that's about 6 times farther than I've ever dared to ride the beast, but I did it for her. And I made it, both ways! Not the best time or place for a longer first test run - 3 pm on a Friday afternoon on city streets through Berkeley and a bit more is a PITA in a normal car, with lots of traffic lights, more stop signs and pedestrians around the campus, but it kept running and got there, and nothing fell off! Whew!
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Excellent, glad you got the (not so) perfect opportunity to give the bike an extended ride. I'm guessing her classmates thought the Bomber was pretty cool too.
 
wentwest said:
Just an update - this past week my granddaughter's school had a car show, and she asked me to bring the Bomber. It's only about 6 miles away, but that's about 6 times farther than I've ever dared to ride the beast, but I did it for her. And I made it, both ways!
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Congrats on the successful run! Certainly you got a pic or two from the show to prove that it happened?
 
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