Here we go - 1971 CL350 Restore

[Cycleranger]

Day one. So I bought this bike in 2016 and for various reasons it was only today that it finally hit the lift.
Here's what I'm starting with. The PO had it running but just barely, he did the bare minimum to get it there.
It was missing the air boxes and the side covers. I've gotten replacements in that time. I also got the front muffler guard.
It sounded ok, no excessive top end noise or smoke. Went through the gears ok. but we'll see. The speedo shows ~14K miles which I believe is real. It's surprisingly rust free, even the tool box!
The tank looks pretty good inside but has that dent. I have another '71 tank with really nice paint but it has a similar, smaller dent in the other side. I might see if I can pop out the dent. Not really concerned about it, the bike needs repainted either way.
The mufflers look really good, amazingly good in fact, all things considered, although I noticed one of the brackets was broken. The break looks fresh so I guess the PO did that. Might be a hassle to repair without damaging the chrome.
Today I got a closer look at the engine and I suspect it's had the top end off. It's leaking a bit and I can see some RTV around the gaskets. I don't believe the PO did that, he never had the engine out of the frame. So I might just pull the top off and refresh the gaskets at least and discover what other potential horrors might be there...
Started tearing it down and discovered some silly things that Honda did. Like I have to pull the swing arm bolt to remove the passenger foot peg mount and take off the fork caps to remove the gauges. What the hell Honda..

Anyway, this should be both educational and expensive for me.

 

[Cycleranger]

A few more unnecessary photos.

 

[LongDistanceRider]

One bite at a time like eating an elephant.

 

[Cycleranger]

One bite at a time like eating an elephant.

Yeah, it's the time it takes and effort involved. Having restored my other bikes I'm familiar with just what parts are available for them.
I'm making the list and wondering just what's out there for 350's. I guess I'll know by the time it's done.
It's the rubber bits that concern me most.

 

[fxray]

That broken tab on the exhaust pipe is the third step in the process of losing the long heat shield. There are three bolts to hold the shield. Step one: the first bolt vibrates out and is lost on the road. This is easy to overlook. Step two, the rear bolt follows suit. Step three: the shield is only held in the middle. It vibrates till the mounting tab fractures and looks like yours. Step four: the heat shield, still bolted to the remnants of the center mounting tab mysteriously disappears somewhere along the road without even making any noise or bumping your leg as it leaves.

After that happened to me, I took another motorcycle and retraced my path to look for the heat shield, searching both shoulders of the road and in the ditches. Never found it. I got two more of the long shields from an eBayer out in Oregon.

I made a new center tab and got it welded. With a touchup of Rustoleum Silver (poor man's chrome), it doesn't show at all. I now use longer mounting bolts that extend far enough to add small Nylock nuts in behind the mounts, where the longer bolts extend through. It adds a whole 'nother level of PITA to the process of removing / replacing the CL exhaust, but it is worthwhile. Thousands of miles later, the heat shield is still firmly in place and the spare is still in a box on my shelf. There isn't room to tighten the nuts fully against the back of the mounting tabs, but they stay in place because they have the Nylock patch. They are only for additional insurance beyond the Blue Loctite.

Get the center bracket welded back on, then mount the heat shield with the front and rear bolts. Use the shield as a template to center punch the new center bracket. Remove the shield, drill, tap, paint, polish you got it!

 

[Cycleranger]

Thank you that's good advice. I was thinking pretty much what you suggested for replacing the tab. Fortunately I do know a really skilled welder. The lock nuts sound like a good idea. Hopefully I won't be removing the exhaust very often.

 

[ancientdad]

Thank you that's good advice. I was thinking pretty much what you suggested for replacing the tab. Fortunately I do know a really skilled welder. The lock nuts sound like a good idea. Hopefully I won't be removing the exhaust very often.

I used star washers on my CL450K4 in high school when one of my heat shield screws fell out, but Ray's idea of longer screws with nylock nuts on the backside is much better.

 

[Cycleranger]

Disassembly continues. I need a new headlight bucket. I have another that needs a little work but is in way better shape.
I wish someone would repop these.
The swingarm gave me no trouble at all and even more incredible neither did the center stand.
The right fork tube was a little reluctant to let go and the top bridge was really stuck.
Had to apply some heat and a dead blow hammer.
'Cause it' always a good idea to pound on 50 year old cast aluminum, right?
Left the stem in for today, I'll chase the ball bearings tomorrow.
Anyway, got it down to the heavy part. I'll get the lump on the stand tomorrow.
This has been too easy, I'm just sure something awaits in the engine..

 

[ancientdad]

I wish someone would repop these.

Seems like RetroCB would/should. Maybe he doesn't realize how many have been damaged and/or ruined by people not knowing how to remove the headlight and breaking off the tab at the top.

 

[Cycleranger]

Seems like RetroCB would/should. Maybe he doesn't realize how many have been damaged and/or ruined by people not knowing how to remove the headlight and breaking off the tab at the top.

Yeah this same bucket was used on a bunch of different models. It shouldn't be a hard item to reproduce.

 

[ancientdad]

Yeah this same bucket was used on a bunch of different models. It shouldn't be a hard item to reproduce.

Someone needs to tell him!

 

[Cycleranger]

Someone needs to tell him!

Well by golly maybe I'll just jot down some part numbers and shoot him an email later and see if he can be inspired to produce some.
(And btw, this forum is in desperate need of better smileys..)

 

[ancientdad]

(And btw, this forum is in desperate need of better smileys..)

Absolutely agree. It's already on the list, but low priority.

I've currently spent the last 4 days working on a permanent solution for our FSM library to prevent further piracy of the files VHT owns and Jim has a lot of personal money invested in, which would have gone on unchecked were I not looking at that other forum still. It's how I noticed one of our newest members being way too generous with stuff that doesn't belong to him. Trying to locate a storage site with the safeguards we need took some time to research, and then of course the entire nearly 7 Gb of files had to be transferred, organized and categorized from my only slightly better home internet (recent T-Mobile home wifi in the area but it's only a little bit better, mostly upload speed which was good for this project). And then screenshots taken of the lists of files in each since there will be no more free browsing, as people just can't be trusted anymore.

 

[Cycleranger]

You are correct, that is entirely way more important!

 

[stl360+450]

This looks like a good project to follow - sign me up. Have you checked the compression?

 

[Cycleranger]

This looks like a good project to follow - sign me up. Have you checked the compression?

Nope. I'm going to the pull the head and replace what needs replaced and keep what doesn't.
I can tell from all the RTV residue that the head's been off before and I want to at the very least clean all that up and replace the gaskets.
So today I got the lump on the stand. There's no turning back now.
Also noticed the brake lever's had a little work done in the past. Maybe I'll look for a better one, maybe not.
The steering bearings looked like they'd never been touched. The grease in there was putrid, but the bearings were otherwise ok.
Now the question is powder or paint for the frame. I'll have to do some checking around for prices, it's been awhile since had either done

 

[stl360+450]

Now the question is powder or paint for the frame. I'll have to do some checking around for prices, it's been awhile since had either done

I just dropped my frame and some other parts off at a local moto shop for powder coating. They told me they usually charge $250 to do the frame and swingarm, including blasting that is done by a third party. (Their blast cabinet isn't big enough for the frame.)

 

[Cycleranger]

I just dropped my frame and some other parts off at a local moto shop for powder coating. They told me they usually charge $250 to do the frame and swingarm, including blasting that is done by a third party. (Their blast cabinet isn't big enough for the frame.)

That's a good price. I think I paid $300 for that when I had my XS650 frame done several years back.

Another thing I took note of today is the spread between the frame and the engine number.
The engine is ~89000 numbers higher than the frame, but still a CL engine in the K3 number range.
That's quite a difference, higher than I would consider typical.
Makes me think it might not be the original engine.

 

[fxray]

That's a good price. I think I paid $300 for that when I had my XS650 frame done several years back.

Another thing I took note of today is the spread between the frame and the engine number.
The engine is ~89000 numbers higher than the frame, but still a CL engine in the K3 number range.
That's quite a difference, higher than I would consider typical.
Makes me think it might not be the original engine.

FWIW, my 1971 CL350K3 has a spread of 35,423 (engine number higher than frame number), and I am certain that it is the original engine.

 

[Cycleranger]

FWIW, my 1971 CL350K3 has a spread of 35,423 (engine number higher than frame number), and I am certain that it is the original engine.

Interesting. I wonder if that high difference is typical for the 350's. It wouldn't be for say the 750's but then they made a lot more 350's.
I guess there'd be no way to know without a larger sampling.
My VIN shows a manufacture date of 7/71 and is ~304K iirc.
I would expect the difference to increase as they moved through the model year.

 

[fxray]

. . . My VIN shows a manufacture date of 7/71 and is ~304K iirc.
I would expect the difference to increase as they moved through the model year.

My CL350 K3 VIN shows a manufacture date of 2/71 and is ~301K (frame number)

By comparison, my 1970 SL350 K0 (build month 1/70) has a spread of 187, with the frame number higher than the engine number.

 

[Cycleranger]

So today I knocked out the stem races and discovered my own "mousetown", at least a bit.
There were a few acorns and a mud dobber nest in there but no major rust. *whew*.
Removed the swing arm bushings and started on the shock bushings, 'cause they're always fun to remove but ran out steam since it was up to 100° in the shop by then.
Removed the VIN tag and got it off intact, always tricky.
So perhaps this week I'll find somewhere to get the frame etc. blasted and coated.

 

[ancientdad]

That old steering bearing grease is always so lovely.

 

[Cycleranger]

That old steering bearing grease is always so lovely.

It's the smell that's the best. The swing arm was pretty stinky too.
Oh yeah and another thing I found out today is it has a matching lock set.
The ignition was just hanging when I got the bike and I just assumed the PO had replaced it so I was prepared to pick the fork lock and just leave it out. (As I had to do on my 750K5 and my CJ360..)
Just to try I stuck the key in and the fork lock did unlock and extract!
I was thrilled, it's the little things..

 

[Cycleranger]

Popped the shock bushings out of the swing arm.
I gave them a little heat but they were tight!
But Grandpa's vise came through again.
(Yes, I know they only come out one way.)

When I pulled it out the battery box I noticed it had a broken "leg" on the side but not too much rust.
Thought, ok, I can fix that.
However, looked at it a little closer today and it is actually broken in several places.
I supposed it could be welded up but it was easier and cheaper to find another one from ebay. Less rust too.
Tomorrow the frame and swing arm go off for blasting and powder coating.
I'd better get busy and spend some money on some new parts.

 

[Cycleranger]

Got my replacement battery box. It looks good. Got gaskets and seals for the engine.
Since it's so bloody hot this week I decided to play with the hose and scrub the motor.
That mud dauber nest was hard as cement.
So that's how it looks after about an hour and half. I'd say it's half clean.
I'm going to have to pull the starter to clean behind it.
I had to go buy a couple of new brushes today and tomorrow I'll attack it again, try to get the fins cleaner.
Cleaning it up it's even more apparent that the top end has been off. There's blue RTV everywhere, hopefully not too much inside..
Makes me wonder why, I know the PO didn't do it and the mileage shows 14K.
I'm going to pull the head and reseal everything without RTV of course.
Hopefully that will be all it needs...
Heh, I just realized I only posted one "after" photo. The other two are "before".
The top end looks better now too.

 

[ballbearian]

You have to be careful, but I've used oven cleaner some on some stubborn spots.

 

[Cycleranger]

You have to be careful, but I've used oven cleaner some on some stubborn spots.

Hopefully it won't come to that. The bottom of the case on my CJ was tinted red by west Texas mud.
I decided I could live with it since it can't been seen.
And of course the CJ had no starter to catch all kinds of crap behind it.
I thought the CJ was bad when I cleaned it but this CL engine is far greasier.
Probably won't get really clean until I take it apart.

 

[ballbearian]

Hopefully it won't come to that. The bottom of the case on my CJ was tinted red by west Texas mud.
I decided I could live with it since it can't been seen.
And of course the CJ had no starter to catch all kinds of crap behind it.
I thought the CJ was bad when I cleaned it but this CL engine is far greasier.
Probably won't get really clean until I take it apart.

I think the greasy is best, it protects the aluminum. The crusty dry oxidation takes more elbow grease.

 

[stl360+450]

You have to be careful, but I've used oven cleaner some on some stubborn spots.

Careful because of the potential for discoloration of the aluminum? Am I correct in thinking it could darken the aluminum?

 

[ballbearian]

Careful because of the potential for discoloration of the aluminum? Am I correct in thinking it could darken the aluminum?

Truthfully, not sure. I sprayed it on and started scrubbing after just a few minutes then rinsed it right off.

 

[LongDistanceRider]

Careful because of the potential for discoloration of the aluminum? Am I correct in thinking it could darken the aluminum?

It will discolor the aluminum permanently. A quick spray on and hose off should work but that really doesn't give it enough time to work.

 

[fxray]

^^^The quickest and easiest way to clean the bottom half of the crankcase is to use a rotary steel wire wheel in a drill or angle grinder. I know it sounds abusive, but the alloy responds very well to this. You can wail on it. No need to be dainty. Try it on a junk one if you don't believe me, or even just start out lightly on the crankcase you plan to use and get more aggressive as needed. Obviously, find a way to secure it first, and stay away from your gasket surfaces.

This was wire wheeled. I don't have a "before" picture, but trust me -- it was nasty:

 

[Cycleranger]

I did some more engine cleaning today. I think it's about as good as it's going to be for now.
I'll do some more cleaning after I have it apart.
I removed the back tire. It was hard and cracked but at least I didn't have to cut it off.
I tried to figure out the date code, but it was too old.
The rim looked pretty good. This was the worst of it. It should clean up fine.
I had to replace both the rims and spokes on my CJ360. That was an expense I hadn't planned for.

Fxray, your case looks nice. I have used a brass wire wheel on stuff in the past. It does work well.

 

[LongDistanceRider]

I removed the back tire. It was hard and cracked but at least I didn't have to cut it off.
I tried to figure out the date code, but it was too old.

The 3 digit date codes are week, 1st 2 numbers, followed by the last digit of the year. So if it said 125 that would be the 12th week of a year ending in 5, 1975 or 1985 or 1995.

 

[Cycleranger]

The 3 digit date codes are week, 1st 2 numbers, followed by the last digit of the year. So if it said 125 that would be the 12th week of a year ending in 5, 1975 or 1985 or 1995.

It's a Nankang. There were two sets of numbers on the tire, 2824, and DOT WEY1 (255131) I guess the WEY1 is the factory code.
I think the tire is probably from the '70's. but not the original factory tire, unless Honda used Nankang tires.
I'm assuming the tire doesn't date from 1971, but I suppose it could.
The front tire is a Bridgestone and maybe original.

 

[Cycleranger]

So today I spent about 30 mins searching in vain for two carb kits I bought back in 2016. I have the receipt, I know I bought them, where the $#&@ are they?? I did find some new Barnett clutch springs for the CL350 that I forgot I had, so there's that.
I know if I order two more kits I'll find the ones I already have 'cause that's how it goes..

While I was hanging on the edge of heat stroke I decided to knock out the bearings from the rear wheel. The sprocket nuts are pretty chewed up from a chain break/jump. I guess I'll get some new ones. Surprisingly the studs slipped right out of the bushes.
Wasn't expecting that.
The retainer was barely staked, I didn't even have to drill it, which was nice and it came right out with the pin spanner.
I had a heck of a time getting spacer far enough aside to get a bite on the bearing to punch it out. But it all worked out in the end.

 

[ancientdad]

If these bikes could talk.

 

[stl360+450]

While I was hanging on the edge of heat stroke I decided to knock out the bearings from the rear wheel. The sprocket nuts are pretty chewed up from a chain break/jump. I guess I'll get some new ones.
The retainer was barely staked, I didn't even have to drill it, which was nice and it came right out with the pin spanner.
I had a heck of a time getting spacer far enough aside to get a bite on the bearing to punch it out. But it all worked out in the end.

I knocked bearings out a couple of days ago. My experience getting a bite on the rear bearing was exactly like yours. I could only catch a tiny edge at first. My sprocket nuts were on so tight that I had to hold the studs individually in a vice to get them loose. Turns out the top threads on the studs had a little damage and one of my sprocket nuts actually lost threads in the process. I was able to clean up the studs well enough that I will reuse them and ordered new nuts. Are you replacing your sprocket?

 

[Cycleranger]

I knocked bearings out a couple of days ago. My experience getting a bite on the rear bearing was exactly like yours. I could only catch a tiny edge at first. My sprocket nuts were on so tight that I had to hold the studs individually in a vice to get them loose. Turns out the top threads on the studs had a little damage and one of my sprocket nuts actually lost threads in the process. I was able to clean up the studs well enough that I will reuse them and ordered new nuts. Are you replacing your sprocket?

Ironically the sprocket nuts were loose, just buggered up. To remove the two really chewed ones I had to clamp the studs in a vise also.
I did order a couple of new studs, nuts, and some new bushes. (If they actually have them in stock.)
I'm going to reuse that sprocket, it's still got some miles left on it. The drive sprocket was more noticeably worn and I'll replace it.

 

[LongDistanceRider]

I'll suggest replacing both sprockets and the chain at the same time, that way the new sprockets won't cause premature wear on the chain.

 

[Cycleranger]

I'll suggest replacing both sprockets and the chain at the same time, that way the new sprockets won't cause premature wear on the chain.

You are absolutely correct that is best practice for sure but I'm prepared to suffer the consequences..
Or maybe not, we'll see how it really looks after it's cleaned up.

 

[Cycleranger]

Put some new felt on the carb shafts today. Don't try removing those screws with anything other than a JIS screwdriver..
Cleaned up some parts too but it was so damn hot (~103°) I think I did about 20 minutes worth of work in about an hour and half.
​

 

[ballbearian]

You are absolutely correct that is best practice for sure but I'm prepared to suffer the consequences..
Or maybe not, we'll see how it really looks after it's cleaned up.

There is more teeth to bear the load on a rear, so some wear can be tolerable with a new chain, IMO. When I can see the cupping of the teeth from the side, then the new chain won't stay new for long.

 

[Cycleranger]

There is more teeth to bear the load on a rear, so some wear can be tolerable with a new chain, IMO. When I can see the cupping of the teeth from the side, then the new chain won't stay new for long.

Ok, aftermarket front sprocket is toast. The rear shows a little wear but it's fine all the riding I intend to do on this bike.

I did find the carb kits I ordered in 2017! Whoo hoo!
And of course I found them right where I left them, in the box labeled "carb kits".
I think I'm just stupid, I looked that box half a dozen times but I thought the four boxes in there were leftover CB550 kits.
Turns out it was two leftovers from the CJ and the new CL kits. Durrr, read the labels..
Along the way I found two NOS Showa 341 shock cartridges I bought years ago and completely forgot about.
So the carb kit search wasn't a total waste of time, I tell myself...
Started to do more carb work but it was so hot I thought it might be best to stick to simple things so I pulled the original Bridgestone tire off the front rim and knocked out the bearings.
The front rim looked pretty good on the inside, nothing a bit of wire brushing can't clean up.

 

[ancientdad]

Yeah, that front sprocket definitely has to go, rear one looks usable. Sometimes when you look at so much stuff in your storage you see the same things over and over and just don't pay enough attention to them after a while, I've done it my share.

 

[ballbearian]

Yeah that front would just eat your new chain. I'd re-use that rear, no prob.

 

[stl360+450]

Ok, aftermarket front sprocket is toast. The rear shows a little wear but it's fine all the riding I intend to do on this bike.

Did that front sprocket come off of a motorcycle or a circular saw? =)

 

[Cycleranger]

That front sprocket shows what you get with aftermarket, softer steel.
Hopefully the aftermarket part I replace it with will be of better quality.

 

[Cycleranger]

Well I started to take a wire wheel to the rims today but the batteries for the drill were dead.
So while they charged I scrubbed the wheels. I think this may be as clean as they get, I'm not going to go through the process of stripping the old clear coat and polishing them, at least for now.
I did that on the CJ only because it needed new rims and spokes and it was a pita.

Sorted through all the brass I have for the carbs and separated out all Keihin parts and cleaned them up so I could pick out the best pieces.
A couple of those slow jets were still clogged even after soaking and soda blasting. I had to poke them out with a piece of guitar string.