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Gauge chrome ring removal, installation and general clean up.

LongDistanceRider

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As anyone who has opened up their gauges removing the chrome ring and re-installing it is a pain. Lots of less than optimal results. Removal advice ranges from cutting it off to using a paint can openers to pry it apart. I've read I think every version out there. Re-installing the ring ranges from gluing it in place with super glue or JB Weld to crushing it back in shape carefully with pliers.
First problem with working on a gauge is it's difficult to hold on to while working. Solution? 3 inch black ABS pipe coupling. Simply use your Dremel and grind the first inch or so back enough that the gauge just drops into it. The one in the picture is from Lowes. For the speedo you will need to cut a slot to clear the trip meter knob and shaft. Do the tach first.
RIMG0558.JPG

Note that the ends of the coupler are different, use the end without the raised lettering. You'll know why further on.
RIMG0557.JPG
Next, gather the tools need to do the job.
RIMG0577.JPG
Missing in the picture is a small straight blade screwdriver.

Set the gauge into the holder and with the straight blade screw driver or the small scraper catch the edge of the ring and pry it up a little, you can't get much and the tool will pop off so wear a glove to keep from poking yourself. I used the bent one on one gauge and a regular one on the second with similar results.
RIMG0555.JPG

Once you've gone all the way around change to the small straight blade and push it inside the ring so you catch the edge of the gauge back plate. Work it back and forth and pry out to gently bend the ring up more, work completely around the gauge. Now switch to the regular screwdriver and repeat the process prying out a little more each time to get enough clearance of the ring to the gauge back plate. I went around 4 times to get to the point I could push the ring down over the housing, had to pry slightly.
RIMG0553.JPG RIMG0560.JPG


The key thing here is IF you pry too much you leave a dent which may not be able to be corrected or hidden.
Once the ring is down use the razor knife to insert between the gasket and the back plate, not the inner housing. You may be able to go completely around or you may only get a little bit. Insert the small screwdriver and twist to pop the plate loose from the gasket. It may stick so be careful not to tear the rubber!
Now you can take apart the tach/speedo and do whatever you desire. I removed the glass from it's gasket to clean the edges real good, note that the glass is convex so be sure it's installed correctly. I also replaced the gauge decals, zero'd the odometer, cleaned and grease all the gears with a lite grease used for garage door rollers. Do not use any type of heavy grease, the gears are tiny and the plastic ones will strip in a heartbeat.
I don't have any solution for cleaning the odometer numbers BUT I do know that carb and brake clean wipe them out so don't use those.
To free up the normal after 50 years or so sticking/sluggish tach and speedo you want to lube the drive bushing area. This point right here. Also lube the needle bushing to get it freed up.
RIMG0561.JPG

I use this stuff for cable lube and it worked really well on the bushing. Found it in a RC car store.
RIMG0569.JPG

Spray it in to make a little puddle and spin the drive using the end of an old cable or the small screwdriver. do this until you see the oil start to come out the cable side. As you do it you may encounter a stiff spot suddenly, that's dirt. Turn the opposite direction a little and then back again, that should free it up. Keep the oil puddle full, it drains into the bushing. After a few minutes you'll notice how free the drive spins, like it should.
NOTE: the speedo can be wound backwards to reduce the mileage so if your'e doing this try to zero the odometer first then after getting a couple of tenths added by the spinning go backwards to remove it. I won't suggest using a drill to reset the odometer, it'll probably damage the gears. (this is probably why my trip odometer quit right away.)
While paint dries if you painted the housing you can move onto the ring. The bend you snuck the gauge past isn't going to work for assembly. The ring edge needs to be straightened. So use the flat grip pliers for this.
RIMG0572.JPG RIMG0571.JPG

Just insert the ring fully to the jaw, squeeze, move the width of the jaw and repeat until you gone all the way around. Jaws are not serrated so they leave no marks.
Now that you've got everything done you wish it reassembly time and the fun begins.
First and foremost wipe all the dust out of the unit, both inner and outer housings and anything else you can think of. Use air pressure to blow it clean if you have it. Next put a piece of tape over the light holes to keep anything from entering while continuing. Then wipe a light coat of Vaseline onto the gasket. Work in as dust free an area as possible.
Slide the ring onto the housing and over the gasket on the inner housing and insert the gauge backing plate into the ring.
 
Drop the assembled unit into the holder and grab the C clamp. One end on the drive and the other end on a blocking plate, I used a piece of scrap metal because the clamp isn't big enough for wood.
RIMG0564.JPG

Only clamp it enough that the C clamp won't rotate easily, you don't want to bend the backing plate.
Set the holder upright and grab the flat end punch and tap hammer. At a @45 degree angle to the ring start working the punch around the entire ring bending it inwards some.
RIMG0565.JPG

Once that's done repeat at a @20-30 degree angle bending it further. Last step is with the punch vertical tap until the ring is flat against the backing plate. I did this by working the four point of the compass in a cross patter so I could keep everything as centered as possible, not sure it makes any difference. Now that the ring is tight and flat release the clamp and look at the face of the gauge. You'll see just how clean you were in getting rid of dust because anything left behind is now sitting on the glass. Try tapping the glass and banging the unit to dislodge anything there, might work. If that doesn't work then 2 choices: take it apart and clean better (I had to on one gauge it was so bad) or put it on the bike and hope the vibrations will dislodge the debris.
This is the result of not getting all the dust out before assembly. I had to take it apart a second time.
RIMG0559.JPG
Now remember where I told you to use the smooth end of the coupler Imagine those raised letter being stamped into the ring.
Now you can have cleaned up gauges and a decent looking ring instead of a hacked ring that negates your hard work.
RIMG0584.JPG
 
Jim,

GREAT write up. I'll be doing this in the coming weeks to hopefully fix a sticky speedo and a bouncy tach.

While I'm in there I was going to strip the old paint off and repaint the gauge housing. I believe the color is satin black, which is an easy enough rattle can to find. Should a sealer be put over it as well? Or does a regular old Krylon can work well enough on its own?
 
I don't know what Jim did but I used Krylon satin black on my gauges and all the black parts on my 450, there's not one gloss black thing on it. It looks great next to the satin black powdercoated top bridge too.
 
I picked my speedo and tach apart last night. Tach is back together, speedo I left because it was getting late. Definitely recommend starting this project earlier in the day, especially if you’re painting the gauges.

All in all, this is a GREAT write up. Followed simply and straightforwardly.

A few things I did:

- used white lithium grease on the gears for the speedo, there was almost nothing left on them when I opened them up. Electric contact cleaner took off whatever was there.

- picked up the tri-flow lube from mcmaster. I thought my speedo and tach were running smooth before, after a few minutes of it soaking through while turning it spins even freer.

- re-oriented the light tubes on my tach that go to the indicator lights. I was having an issue with light bleeding from the backlight into my blinker signal, turns out both the metal tube that extends from the back page up and the little rubber sleeve that seals the tube to the blinker gem were misaligned.
— note that it’s tough to get these to line up perfect as the OEM has them, but even with some overlap there’s no issue with brightness.

- replaced all of the external rubber outside of the chrome ring (one large gasket and two small ones). I didn’t realize how much those pieces had shrunk. Feels much more supported and isolated now.

- repainted with the krylon black satin I picked up at Lowe’s. Before/after for the speedo gives me some happy feelings:

cd3f842bf2af20fd6d05268cd5e16bdb.jpg

f042e9a48153ac0861dadba95dbce4d9.jpg


There was some dripping with the rattle can, but I imagine if you really wanted to those could be wet sanded down. This is good enough for what I want right now.

My chrome ring didn’t turn out quite as well as Jim’s on the tach, but it’s acceptable. I have a spare speedo/tach set that I’ll scavenge the ring from over the winter and do this better.

Also, turns out I’ve been riding with a little buddy in the side car! Surprise from the speedometer... god knows how long he’s been in there [emoji1785]

f1a9d1f9974ea54ed13275004166fdef.jpg


Speedo will be put back together either tonight or tomorrow.

Hopefully this solves the bouncy tach issue at high speed, but if not I’ll be looking to see if this is actually a clutch slip issue.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Thanks for this. I just noticed a suddenly erratic speedometer last night on my ride home. I'm going to investigate the cable next time I have a minute and this is great information to have in case the problem is more in depth.
 
I picked my speedo and tach apart last night. Tach is back together, speedo I left because it was getting late. Definitely recommend starting this project earlier in the day, especially if you’re painting the gauges.

All in all, this is a GREAT write up. Followed simply and straightforwardly.

A few things I did:

- used white lithium grease on the gears for the speedo, there was almost nothing left on them when I opened them up. Electric contact cleaner took off whatever was there.

- picked up the tri-flow lube from mcmaster. I thought my speedo and tach were running smooth before, after a few minutes of it soaking through while turning it spins even freer.

- re-oriented the light tubes on my tach that go to the indicator lights. I was having an issue with light bleeding from the backlight into my blinker signal, turns out both the metal tube that extends from the back page up and the little rubber sleeve that seals the tube to the blinker gem were misaligned.
— note that it’s tough to get these to line up perfect as the OEM has them, but even with some overlap there’s no issue with brightness.

- replaced all of the external rubber outside of the chrome ring (one large gasket and two small ones). I didn’t realize how much those pieces had shrunk. Feels much more supported and isolated now.

- repainted with the krylon black satin I picked up at Lowe’s. Before/after for the speedo gives me some happy feelings:


There was some dripping with the rattle can, but I imagine if you really wanted to those could be wet sanded down. This is good enough for what I want right now.

My chrome ring didn’t turn out quite as well as Jim’s on the tach, but it’s acceptable. I have a spare speedo/tach set that I’ll scavenge the ring from over the winter and do this better.

Also, turns out I’ve been riding with a little buddy in the side car! Surprise from the speedometer... god knows how long he’s been in there [emoji1785]


Speedo will be put back together either tonight or tomorrow.

Hopefully this solves the bouncy tach issue at high speed, but if not I’ll be looking to see if this is actually a clutch slip issue.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350



Ed,The whole job was worth doing.The best part imo was getting that little stinker out'a there.
 
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Great step by step. Super helpful. I’d love to do this eventually. There’s a rusty screw right where the face plate is on my.
 
So I guess I didn’t clean the inside of the tach (or the speedo, it sticks at 70) as well as I thought I had. See below video (turn the sound off, the wind noise is horrible) about 18 seconds in.

https://vimeo.com/471986175

Is this just the tach interior needing cleaning, or something else? It’s a new motion pro tach cable.

Constant throttle/speed.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
If you cleaned the inner gears out and it's still bouncing then the only thing I could think of is the dampening pot.
Over the time the dampening fluid will dry out and you will get the needle bouncing all over the place.
 
If you cleaned the inner gears out and it's still bouncing then the only thing I could think of is the dampening pot.
Over the time the dampening fluid will dry out and you will get the needle bouncing all over the place.


I would like to learn how to refill that if possible.
 
The only way I can see those aluminum rings working would be to build a fixture that encompasses the ring to keep it from moving outwards while also holding the gauge side firmly against the gauge while the backside is peened over. If you have a lathe handy then it's a simple step cut for the ring with the opening for the gauge to fit thru. It could possibly be done with hole saws and grinding bits in a Dremel.
 
So I went at my tach mechanism in earnest today, and hit a stop.

This little screw in the green circle - how the heck do you get it out? The only driver I can get through the hole left by the red screw is way too small, and will strip the green one. Any ideas?

7c56f6c964b672fc1aafcd83a5e8a69f.jpg


Haven’t taken a dremel to the tabs yet.

I’m assuming when I pop the top off, I’ll be able to unthread this brass threaded piece that the shaft for the needle passes through? I don’t have a cap like mentioned in the SOHC forum, so I’m guessing there’s a different way to refill the pot.

Second thought, if that thing does unthread, do I even need to lift the top?

53454f051005f8f07c73a33e36d2d6c9.jpg



Update: it threads right off. Looks like there’s some built up gunk in there. I’m guessing Brakleen won’t harm anything, and will clean out whatever old stuff is in there for the new 30,000cst fluid?

5624806aa115f7214c3f43be8343bee3.jpg



Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
That makes two of us [emoji14]

That’ll be all for today. Just clicked that I left the fluid at my shop, but for some reason brought the tach mechanism home [emoji849]


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
That makes two of us [emoji14]

That’ll be all for today. Just clicked that I left the fluid at my shop, but for some reason brought the tach mechanism home [emoji849]


Ed
1972 Honda CL350


Hi Ed,I appreciate and thanks for doing the work.I need to know whether they do have a damper pot & if it's possible to refill it.I never went as deep into the mechanism as you but will after I see your careful work.
 
As far as I know all mechanical gauges (even in cars) have damper pots. The difficult part is figuring how to get to them to refill.
 
I removed the glass from it's gasket to clean the edges real good, note that the glass is convex so be sure it's installed correctly.

Jim,

Did you re-use the old gasket or make a new one or use some black silicone caulk? Trying to figure out what will be most long lasting, these gaskets have a profile to them, but have definitely seen better days.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
I’m going to be working on the gauges again today. Figured out how to get the top plate off and access the dampening pot cleanly. Hope to be able to put together a write up tonight.

Side note: a used brake caliper spray paint to clean up the shells. By and large they looked good after curing, but there’s a few spots with some pitting and one decent drip.

What do we think about wet sanding it? Would it need another coat/bake if I do that?


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Correcting the finish is a matter of what's acceptable to you. Personally blemishes irritate me so I would be fixing it but then again i get a bit A retentive at times.
Benefit of fixing it is that it a small piece so it's easier to work with and you get the experience to do the same on larger more noticeable pieces like tanks and side covers.
Yeah, you'll probably need to respray it when done.
 
Ok, so what I’ve gathered, there’s a hard way and an easy (but slow) way to refill these damping pots.

If you’re going to do this, I’d really recommend starting with the tach, there are fewer pieces in your way and it’s easier to reassemble.

The small shaft that the needle was pressed on to runs through the pot to the needle carrier, which is fastened to the upper plate by that screw on the bottom of the upper that’s so hard to get to.

The name of the game here is “don’t bend the tiny shaft”.

For a quick primer on how these things work (both the tach and the speedo have what seem to be the same mechanism) - the cable spins a magnet driven by either your camshaft for the tach, or your front wheel for the speedo, and that spinning magnet generates a magnetic field, said field then rotates the steel element surrounding said magnet proportional to the strength of the field, which is proportional to the rotational speed of either your engine, or your front wheel. This element is held back by a spring, which prevents the steel element from spinning freely.

This steel element is attached to the needle, which then gives you a readout informing you of either your engine speed, or your ground speed. Pretty nifty stuff.

This dampening pot is there to help smooth out any “bumps” in this delicate mechanical system.

The easy way to do this is simply remove the face, and pop off the little brass nut and bushing that surround the visible portion of the needle (the nut is obvious, and the bushing threads out, I used a pick to grab one side of the slot and back it out).

321d2e29799a27377da13d7ecb92a60f.jpg



Now you’ve got some free space between the needle and the top plate, below which is the open damper pot. I spritzed some carb cleaner and compressed air to clean out whatever was in there previous. Now drip some RC diff fluid (I picked up some 30,000cSt stuff off eBay) in the hole one drop at a time until you’ve got a reasonable amount of fluid in the pot.

Drop the bushing back in, threaded down, and put the nut on. Just a little more than hand tight did it for me. Note if you tighten either of these too tight the mechanism won’t spin freely. You can test this by chucking a drill with a cable end or square bit. You won’t hurt anything, because the input and output are air gapped. Just don’t try it without the little bushing in, otherwise the shaft isn’t centered, and the magnet/steel element could interfere.

27fb83665594236a7d908cfe5b2999ae.jpg



So why not do it this way? It. Is. Slow. The 30,000 cst fluid makes molasses seem like water. It’s thick, goopy stuff and you’ll need to do some cleanup of the stuff that doesn’t quite make it into the pot (there’s a bit of a gap between the top of the pot and the bottom of the top plate)

Now for the hard way.

The top plate is actually mechanically fastened on with some bent over tabs. You can either dremel or chisel these off, but be gentle, smacking the thing around too hard is going to either bend the needle or damage gearing if you’re working on the speedo.

ed91053fa65ddaf1bc779c407d36af8d.jpg



Remove the small “zeroing arm”* on the side of either gauge that sits between the steel element and the “needle shaft retainer”*, it’ll cause a lot of damage if left in place before the next step. Namely, it can bend that small shaft and cause physical interference between the magnet and steel mechanism.

f5cf08c55302cef8b7d2efb2e109351a.jpg



Once you have the tabs and zeroing arm removed, take a punch and gently pop the top plate off. You can now rotate the top plate to take the screw off that holds the top plate to the needle shaft retainer (I just made that name up, it’s the arm that holds the disk the needle shaft rides in). Some gentle finagling and it’ll come out cleanly. Note that the spring can now spin the mechanism backwards. You don’t want to let it do this. If the spring is wound too loose, it won’t set the gauge back to zero. Too tight, and the field won’t be able to spin the steel element, pinning you at zero. Ask me how I know [emoji849]

You can also make note of how many rotations it makes freely, and then spin it back prior to reassembly.

Anyway, now the damping pot is easily accessible to fill to your hearts desire.

3685535d5cb12d675b130d48da546ed5.jpg



c7616521ef3c3e3cfbdd34f783ebc053.jpg


Reassemble in reverse of the above and epoxy (I used JB weld) or otherwise fasten the top plate back in place. Note for the speedo the odometer and the trip meter have to be indexed to the top plate with the little arms. I wish I was able to get the odometer free to match the mileage on my original gauges, but I can deal.

Hope this helps people with the same problem in the future. Unless you’re hyper OCD, I’d recommend leaving the upper plate in and just taking your time filling it while doing something else.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Jim,

Did you re-use the old gasket or make a new one or use some black silicone caulk? Trying to figure out what will be most long lasting, these gaskets have a profile to them, but have definitely seen better days.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350

Regarding gaskets - I only had to paint my housings and my gaskets were toast - very brittle and almost falling apart.
I found some NOS gaskets on Ebay, still in the plastic bags.
 
Regarding gaskets - I only had to paint my housings and my gaskets were toast - very brittle and almost falling apart.
I found some NOS gaskets on Ebay, still in the plastic bags.

When you say the gaskets - do you mean the gasket that holds the lens in place, or the one that goes between the gauge housing and the steel cup?

The latter I’m able to source, the former I don’t even have a part number for [emoji2371]

I think I’m going to clean the original lens gasket up as well as I can and put a little bit of silicon gasket maker in there to make sure it’s doing it’s job. Maybe try one of those rubber restoring methods you read about on the internet.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Ah, after reading your reply I realize I confused the housing gaskets with the lens gaskets - sorry.

I have to say this thread is great and the work you're doing makes me wonder if you're a surgeon.
If my speedo or tach ever needs this repair I'm hoping to pay you to do it!

Regards
 
I have to say this thread is great and the work you're doing makes me wonder if you're a surgeon.
If my speedo or tach ever needs this repair I'm hoping to pay you to do it!

Regards

I was terrified of cracking this thing open, but Jim put together a great tutorial.

All the rest is just trial and error, I’ve always been great at breaking things, figuring how to get them back together is a natural next step!


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
So Ed, my question is how did it work after the new damping fluid?

Just stopped for coffee on my ride today - at higher revs the gauge is smooth now - no bounce or flutter, very happy.

BUT. It doesn’t seem to want to register anything below 1,200-1,500 RPM unless it’s on its way back down (i.e. it won’t come off zero until I give the thing some revs) maybe overfilled the damper?

It also died on me at a stop sign, which it hasn’t done in many thousands of miles, so maybe there’s something else to dig into.

Sounds OK, but I’ll put an electronic tach on it when I’m back to see if I’m actually running a low idle or if the damper pot is just overfull.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
This has been an incredibly helpful thread for my restoration project. I just wanted to add one slightly different approach I used.

Rather than a 3" ABS pipe I used a 3" Rubber Mechanical Joint (plastic to steel union) that i had on hand. This didnt require any modification other than i cut a hole for the trip meter knob. I lined it with wax paper as a precaution against paint sticking to the rubber. It worked well for me. I attached a pic of the setup with my tachometer in it.

cd9da9af66df2f355395c536b61a30c3.jpg


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
 
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I have a little to add, by way of sacrificing a gauge. Actually two, but my tach was toast anyway. Read this post as an experiment to restore the face a little.

The gauges on my '69 CB350 are a little different. There is no metal crimped ring. Instead, the plastic housing "wraps" around the bottom slightly, holding the metal guts in. There is no safe way to pry that out. I tried. It will crack.

What it did instead, and this is semi-destructive and some thought would be needed to close it back up well. But... I used the sanding drum on a Dremel to remove the plastic housing that wraps around the bottom. Cosmetically, this is fine because the chrome piece that slides over the bottom hides all that. I took it down just enough to clear the curve of the metal baseplate. From there, I used a box knife blade, and gently pried the mechanism out. I held the gauge in one hand, and the Dremel in the other. Entire process took about 5 minutes. Easy peasy.

My initial thought on closing it back up is either 4 dots of super glue to hold it in, and some clear silicone to seal it up. This way, I could open it back up again.

Next was the dial. All of my numbers are yellowed.

Here is what doesn't work:
1) Dish soap
2) Bon-ami (mildly abrasive)
3) Baking soda (obviously mildy abrasive)
4) Resolve stain remover
5) Windex. Believe it or not, this works and removes most of the yellow. DON'T USE IT. I'll point out why in the picture.
6) Clorox bleach. This also makes a difference in the yellowing. You'll be able to see the difference in the picture.

The application of all these attempts was with a q-tip. For the bleach, I kept the dial wet for several minutes. In all cases, I very gently scrubbed with the q-tip. Not much pressure at all.

Of note: None of this will do squat for the red portion on a tach. Mine wasn't red anymore. Never will be again by anything anyone could do. It's just faded paint.

Now the pic... I haven't totally polished the lens, so ignore that a bit. If you look around the odometer, you'll be able to see some of the black face is a noticeably different color. This is from the Windex. The entire rest of the dial, except for the odometer was bleached. All of the dial marks and numbers were the same color as the odometer.

For the tip of the needle, I'll see if some model paint matches, and retip that.

One last note: I think, but am not sure, that the Windex might just be removing a thin clear coat. I did this same thing on my toasted tach, and sprayed it with some clear. But the rattle-can was jacked, and it was gloss. But I could no longer see where the Windex was used. Would require another real try.

I won't be using this face.

IMG_20220106_215728.jpg
 
The tip you can buy gauge needle paint on eBay, or go to an arts store and get neon orange paint.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluorescen...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

You can also get the gauge faces on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB35...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Note there are a few different versions of the gauge faces depending on the redline and what indicators are or aren’t in there. This guy is usually very helpful if I recall:

https://www.cb750faces.com/en/


-Ed
1972 CL350
1985 VF700F
 
The tip you can buy gauge needle paint on eBay, or go to an arts store and get neon orange paint.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluorescen...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

You can also get the gauge faces on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB35...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Note there are a few different versions of the gauge faces depending on the redline and what indicators are or aren’t in there. This guy is usually very helpful if I recall:

https://www.cb750faces.com/en/


-Ed
1972 CL350
1985 VF700F

Thanks! All those faces are for either the 350G or 350F. I'll poke around for the twin versions.
 
The older plastic covered gauges are tough to deal with for sure. My father and I did a couple of them back while I was in high school and we melted the plastic edge on the bottom, folded it up as much as we could to get it apart and then melted it back over again but it was less than perfect afterward. We didn't have the faded redline and needle tip issue then since the gauges were all a lot newer. Nice documentation of all the things you tried for cleaning up the faces. One thing to note about cb750faces.com for those with the later gauges held together with the crimp ring: their replacement crimp rings are apparently poor quality, LDR bought a pair and found them to be useless. Perhaps their product is different now as this was a couple years ago, but I believe he mentioned his experience with their crimp rings in his gauge restoration thread. Their replacement face decals for the later models do look good though.
 
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