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CL77 Looking for thoughts on what to do.

LEDTIM

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2022
Total Posts
19
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0
Location
Somerset, VA, USA
As per the rules my initial post was in the New Members section.
I picked up this bike locally and going by the papers and other info given to me it was parked in 1985. The owner had it since 1972. Don't know history prior to that. Anyway I also don't know anything about how the bike was stored and if it was prepped for long storage or if something broke and it was just parked. It probably doesn't matter too much. I do know there's a decent amount of rust on the muffler and other chromed spots as well as what seems to be mostly surface rust on parts of the frame and on some other steel parts. I was told the engine will turn over. I haven't wanted to touch anything because I don't want to foul anything up.
I have never turned a wrench on a bike. I'm semi handy with other things but this I've never done. I'd like to learn though.
Given what you can see of the bike in pics below (I'll make two batches or posts) and my starting from scratch as an owner/tinkerer - what might you recommend I do? I have no timetable on this. I would like to ride it one day:)
Any and all comments welcome.
Luca

cl771.jpg cl772.jpg cl7713.jpg cl7721.jpg cl7722.jpg cl7720.jpg cl7719.jpg cl7718.jpg cl7717.jpg cl7716.jpg cl7715.jpg cl7714.jpg
 
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More pics...
I cleaned up the bike just a touch while taking pics so some have more dirt than others.

cl777.jpg cl7711.jpg cl7710.jpg cl779.jpg cl778.jpg cl775.jpg cl774.jpg cl773.jpg cl776.jpg cl7712.jpg
 
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If your not mechanically inclined and don't have a good understanding of these older bikes, it maybe best to move it along to another owner who has skills. The first thing to determine in what level of restoration you want to have and if it will just be a runner. Parts for these bikes are now pretty thin on the ground and quite pricey for most items that are needed.

There are some guys on the forum who have knowledge on the 305, yet it isn't in the same vein as the later 70's CB350's or CB450 DOHC models.

I don't wish to be negative on your desire, just realistic based on my experience. I am currently restoring a 1966 CL77 to a high level and I am quite knowledgeable on all things Honda. This bike I am restoring was difficult and expensive and stretched my skill level for sure..
 
You need to do a proper compression test to see if it can be made to run. The fuel system from tank to carbs will, no doubt, need detailed cleaning. A new battery. Oil change.
At least you'll know better on how to proceed.
 
LEDTIM said:
I have never turned a wrench on a bike. I'm semi handy with other things but this I've never done. I'd like to learn though.
Given what you can see of the bike in pics below (I'll make two batches or posts) and my starting from scratch as an owner/tinkerer - what might you recommend I do? I have no timetable on this. I would like to ride it one day:)
Any and all comments welcome.
Luca
Click to expand...

Flyin900 said:
If your not mechanically inclined and don't have a good understanding of these older bikes, it maybe best to move it along to another owner who has skills. The first thing to determine in what level of restoration you want to have and if it will just be a runner. Parts for these bikes are now pretty thin on the ground and quite pricey for most items that are needed.

There are some guys on the forum who have knowledge on the 305, yet it isn't in the same vein as the later 70's CB350's or CB450 DOHC models.

I don't wish to be negative on your desire, just realistic based on my experience. I am currently restoring a 1966 CL77 to a high level and I am quite knowledgeable on all things Honda. This bike I am restoring was difficult and expensive and stretched my skill level for sure..
Click to expand...

This is a link to Flyin900's CL77 build so you can get an idea of what all he's gone through to help you make a decision on what to do from here. I have to agree with him to some extent about the size of the project you have considering your lack of experience with one of the more difficult vintage Hondas out there. Know this: if you do choose to move forward, we will help you as much as possible through this forum, but it might be a bigger project than you've anticipated.

https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/f...nd-a-local-Honda-CL77-Scrambler-and-bought-it!
 
Hey Luca,

Hopefully your not upset with my initial response to your post and inquiry about this bike. As AD noted this is a great site for help if you decide to proceed with that bike. It will require quite a bit of work with likely opening the engine up and dissembling it, if it has sat for almost 40 years. This requires some special tools and skills, which based on your initial post I thought maybe lacking with never worked on a bike before.

The fuels system will need to be cleaned out as noted and the carbs cleaned/rebuilt and a compression test will give to some indication of the engine health. Before you attempt to turn that engine over though some procedures should be followed with that long of a layup the rings are likely stuck and valves may also be stuck in their guides.
 
Flyin900 said:
Hey Luca,

Hopefully your not upset with my initial response to your post and inquiry about this bike.
Click to expand...

Hi Flyin900,
I'm not upset with your response. You make some great points. I can see from reading the story of your build that it can be a challenging process on many fronts. I appreciate what you and others have said.
I do plan on keeping this bike. I ultimately want to ride it around some of these backroads near me in Central Va. How it gets put back to operating condition is currently an open question. I may enlist the aid of a local restorer if things get too complicated or bogged down. I can promise though that I will do no harm and will follow guidelines / advice from those on this site as well as aids such as Mr. Honda's guide, FS manuals, videos etc. I will take beaucoup pics, make labels and notes before, during and after anything done. Proper tools utilized including the JIS screwdrivers. I thank you and others for your responses. This seems like a very pleasant and helpful board!
 
LEDTIM said:
Hi Flyin900,
I'm not upset with your response. You make some great points. I can see from reading the story of your build that it can be a challenging process on many fronts. I appreciate what you and others have said.
I do plan on keeping this bike. I ultimately want to ride it around some of these backroads near me in Central Va. How it gets put back to operating condition is currently an open question. I may enlist the aid of a local restorer if things get too complicated or bogged down. I can promise though that I will do no harm and will follow guidelines / advice from those on this site as well as aids such as Mr. Honda's guide, FS manuals, videos etc. I will take beaucoup pics, make labels and notes before, during and after anything done. Proper tools utilized including the JIS screwdrivers. I thank you and others for your responses. This seems like a very pleasant and helpful board!
Click to expand...

We certainly try. As for watching videos... be careful with videos that suggest doing something differently than the FSM says (no matter what their logic may be), and if you have any questions at all be sure to ask us before following the video advice/method. There's a lot of bad information and misguided methods out there, no matter how slick the presentation may be.
 
ancientdad said:
We certainly try. As for watching videos... be careful with videos that suggest doing something differently than the FSM says (no matter what their logic may be), and if you have any questions at all be sure to ask us before following the video advice/method. There's a lot of bad information and misguided methods out there, no matter how slick the presentation may be.
Click to expand...
I understand. I will do as you say.
 
Another bit of advice is to beware of the smaller cross point screws, the 5mm ones
(points, point cover, oil filter cover) they used a now extinct thread pitch that is about impossible to find OEM replacements; 5mmx.9.
I figure you're likely to encounter this pretty soon.
My Vessel #2 JIS impacta screwdriver is a valued tool also.
 
Did a little more investigating... The battery was still there and terminals very corroded - it just broke apart. The tray has some rust but otherwise seems solid. The screws on the points cover chewed up. I ordered some of the correct screws for that. Here are some pics inside gas tank and inside valves. Just going slowly.

tank5.jpg tank4.jpg tank3.jpg tank2.jpg tank1.jpg piston1.jpg piston2.jpg piston3.jpg piston4.jpg piston5.jpg
 
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Lots of little jobs there.
I saved worse 5mm screws than that. 1st soak in PBblaster, peen the cross slots back a little tighter then use the #2 JIS
Recover filters in Unifoam sheet and hot glue gun.
That rectifier will needs go bye-bye and a new flasher to go with LED bulbs.
General order #1: soak every anything that is threaded with WD40 or PBblaster BEFORE trying to loosen or remove.
A new SLA (sealed lead acid) battery is a given.
A gallon of Evaporust and a soak tub. I like a 4" course wire wheel for electric drill to use on various parts.
 
ballbearian said:
Lots of little jobs there.
I saved worse 5mm screws than that. 1st soak in PBblaster, peen the cross slots back a little tighter then use the #2 JIS
Recover filters in Unifoam sheet and hot glue gun.
That rectifier will needs go bye-bye and a new flasher to go with LED bulbs.
General order #1: soak every anything that is threaded with WD40 or PBblaster BEFORE trying to loosen or remove.
A new SLA (sealed lead acid) battery is a given.
A gallon of Evaporust and a soak tub. I like a 4" course wire wheel for electric drill to use on various parts.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all of that!
 
LEDTIM said:
Did a little more investigating... The battery was still there and terminals very corroded - it just broke apart. The tray has some rust but otherwise seems solid. The screws on the points cover chewed up. I ordered some of the correct screws for that. Here are some pics inside gas tank and inside valves. Just going slowly.
Click to expand...


Not too shabby. How are the carb bowls and petcock? Oil the rings and cam before cranking. Don't forget the oil filter clean out.
 
The fuel lines from tank to carb - they are stiff and don’t want to come off. I suppose I can manhandle those and get new ones.


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Don't pull the brass nipples out from manhandling. Soak first and a tiny screwdriver to pry the edge hoping to get it loose. That stuff gets cold and stiffer this time of year, a warm shop or old hairdryer is nice.
 
Good start to the project and your tank is amazingly clean inside. A Evaporust bath will easily clean up that surface rust on the bottom area. If that is a picture of your cylinders and piston tops again they are very clean and free of carbon deposits.

I like a product called Deep Creep from the makers of Seafoam that I always use on a motor that has sat or is new to me. It comes in a spray can form and liberally sprayed down into the cylinders through the spark plug holes and left to sit for a few days will free up the rings and lubricate the cylinders. Then slowly turning the engine over will get the pistons moving in the barrels for you. Lubricating the top end through the valve adjustment ports will get some lube on the cams and bearings and valve stems etc.

The bore scope is a great addition to any tool crib and really helps you see the internal components.
 
Thank you for the recommendations. I will give that product a try. Here are pics of frame and engine serial no’s and the backside of ignition switch - some corrosion.
558f9205bfe090e6c42b1ee02a7cf2b8.jpg


d3132b26407cf932a947fbf3882433a3.jpg

3521d7350d41b7d3752e8b42ea67c8a3.jpg



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I love those old sturdy switches. I've actually taken them apart and cleaned all the contacts but it may not need it, just clean the connections and reassemble with dielectric grease.and test it when you get a new battery. I use tiny wire brushes on a dremel tool for stuff like that.
 
Yes, that was still the era of repairable parts on our bikes. Many old ignition switches can be saved if taken apart, cleaned up and lubed. Stout contacts for the light load that bike presented.
 
ancientdad said:
Yes, that was still the era of repairable parts on our bikes. Many old ignition switches can be saved if taken apart, cleaned up and lubed. Stout contacts for the light load that bike presented.
Click to expand...

Not only can be saved but must, because there are no NOS available and any modern replacement is cheaply made. Most of the time they still work anyway.
Maybe it's the retrogrouch in me but I say, stay old school and be no fool. :biggrin:
 
Not hard to tell which terminal is the battery connection, is it? Soak those corroded wires in a vinegar/salt solution. A ratio of one cup vinegar to one teaspoon of salt. Soak for 10 minutes to an hour, then rinse and neutralize the vinegar acid with a solution of water and baking soda.
 
mike in idaho said:
Not hard to tell which terminal is the battery connection, is it? Soak those corroded wires in a vinegar/salt solution. A ratio of one cup vinegar to one teaspoon of salt. Soak for 10 minutes to an hour, then rinse and neutralize the vinegar acid with a solution of water and baking soda.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Vinegar and salt I have an abundance of [emoji3]. Baking soda not so much since neither my wife or I bake much but I’ll make some cookies…don’t want to tell her I’m buying it for bike as she HATES that I got it and hasn’t cooled off yet.


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Curious as to whether folks would recommend an electronic ignition and I guess rectifier to go with on this bike or should it be kept as original as possible.?
 
Depends. If your goal is a concourse restoration keep the points. Some would recommend keeping the points for their simplicity and ease of troubleshooting. Others will recommend the electronic ignition for improved performance and reliability. If not a restoration I would recommend a solid state reg/rec with or without the EI.
 
J-T said:
Depends. If your goal is a concourse restoration keep the points. Some would recommend keeping the points for their simplicity and ease of troubleshooting. Others will recommend the electronic ignition for improved performance and reliability. If not a restoration I would recommend a solid state reg/rec with or without the EI.
Click to expand...
Thanks. It appears NOS orange painted rectifiers are hard to find for this bike. So despite the different look maybe something like this? https://www.charlies-place.com/shop/type-1-regulatorrectifier-applications/ I'm not looking th do a concourse restore but do want to utilize what is on the bike and what is correct for it as much as I'm able...keeping it as original as makes sense.
 
LEDTIM said:
Thanks. It appears NOS orange painted rectifiers are hard to find for this bike. So despite the different look maybe something like this? https://www.charlies-place.com/shop/type-1-regulatorrectifier-applications/ I'm not looking th do a concourse restore but do want to utilize what is on the bike and what is correct for it as much as I'm able...keeping it as original as makes sense.
Click to expand...

I've got a good selenium rectifier, but I'm replacing it with a more efficient and robust silicone one (like Sparck's) because they have a habit of "leaking" and your battery gets drained overnight.
 
Do you need one? I think I have a new Rectifier somewhere if they are common for a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Had an extra one I'd bought before I decided to get the combo. Also may have the flasher relay as well.
Let me know if you need it. No charge. Just be glad to see someone get to use it
 
Steelfingers said:
Do you need one? I think I have a new Rectifier somewhere if they are common for a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Had an extra one I'd bought before I decided to get the combo. Also may have the flasher relay as well.
Let me know if you need it. No charge. Just be glad to see someone get to use it
Click to expand...

That would be very nice of you but I'm happy to pay! The old rectifier on this '67 Scrambler is trashed. The flasher relay also not so good. Since I'm just getting into all this I'm not 100% sure of what is compatible.
 
LEDTIM said:
That would be very nice of you but I'm happy to pay! The old rectifier on this '67 Scrambler is trashed. The flasher relay also not so good. Since I'm just getting into all this I'm not 100% sure of what is compatible.
Click to expand...

As Jim mentioned, I'd recommend the Sparck Moto unit for the best quality performance for a good price, many here have them and the owner Matt is also a VHT member who offers good support for his products.

http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/7
 
Some of the newer ones from 70's bikes are not compatible with the older CL77 systems. If it is a 1970's 3 phase unit it will not work is my understanding with the older selenium rectifier singe phase units from the 60's. Someone else will be able to confirm that swap that has more knowledge here on the compatibility.

Your better to use a modern unit vs the older selenium rectifiers style, as they are old now and leaky. Even if it was a NOS piece, it has sat on a shelf for 55 years now.

The flasher should be an easy swap for a modern style, since those didn't really change overall in the basic design. If you decide to use LED bulbs, then a LED flasher would likely be appropriate for your bulb change setup.
 
Flyin900 said:
Some of the newer ones from 70's bikes are not compatible with the older CL77 systems. If it is a 1970's 3 phase unit it will not work is my understanding with the older selenium rectifier singe phase units from the 60's. Someone else will be able to confirm that swap that has more knowledge here on the compatibility.
Click to expand...

Sparck Moto has both units and this one is not the 3 phase model. It's been used on the CB450K0 so I'd believe it would work on the 305 systems as well although I'm not as familiar with the CB/CL77
 
Color coding on the early models is different, and somewhat confusing to some.....
The Sparckmoto SINGLE phase rectifier/regulator works well and should be wired-in as follows:

Honda CB/CL 77 alternator BROWN wire....TO......Sparckmoto unit PINK wire

CB/CL 77 alternator YELLOW wire....TO......Sparckmoto unit YELLOW wire AND harness YELLOW (ultimately to ignition key switch SE terminal)

CB/CL 77 alternator PINK wire to harness PINK (ultimately to ignition switch DY terminal)

Sparckmoto RED and Sparckmoto BLACK wires both go to battery positive

Sparckmoto GREEN wire to battery negative
 
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66Sprint said:
Color coding on the early models is different, and somewhat confusing to some.....
The Sparckmoto SINGLE phase rectifier/regulator works well and should be wired-in as follows:

Honda CB/CL 77 alternator BROWN wire....TO......Sparckmoto unit PINK wire

CB/CL 77 alternator YELLOW wire....TO......Sparckmoto unit YELLOW wire AND harness YELLOW (ultimately to ignition key switch SE terminal)

CB/CL 77 alternator PINK wire to harness PINK (ultimately to ignition switch DY terminal)

Sparckmoto RED and Sparckmoto BLACK wires both go to battery positive

Sparckmoto GREEN wire to battery negative
Click to expand...

And thanks for the reference to the earlier wiring colors Steve, I was aware that some colors changed in the later models but did not know all the differences.
 
Thank you everyone for all your help. The information and help here on this forum is priceless. Unfortunately I’m sure I will keep being a nuisance and might even ask some stupid questions! Right now I’ll purchase the rectifier from Sparckmoto.


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LEDTIM said:
Unfortunately I’m sure I will keep being a nuisance and might even ask some stupid questions! Right now I’ll purchase the rectifier from Sparckmoto.
Click to expand...

As LDR has said many times, there are no stupid questions - only the ones you don't ask. You're not a nuisance nor will you be, this is what we do and we do it as well as anyone on the internet. It's what we enjoy doing, which is why we broke away from our previous longtime home and started our own forum over 2.5 years ago. If you haven't seen this yet, it tells some of the story.
 
Let me know and send me a pic. If I got them that will fit, I'll send them to you. They were working fine when I put new ones on
 
So a revisit to this thread after a long time. I didn’t do anything with this bike until this March - giving it to a local vintage Honda repair guy to get running - no way I was going to be able to do it myself. This is not a ground up resto but cosmetics are an issue or consideration . As we have gone along things have generally worked out from the function standpoint. No horror stories. And mainly I wanted it solid and rideable. One question now relates to the wheels and spokes.
There is some rust - the wheels have a line of it in a depression or recessed area and the spokes are generally rusty. These components have been described as solid from a functional standpoint but he asks if I want to pony up for aluminum wheels and rims to make it look better (and I guess a little lighter) I’m one to stick with original if possible. He thinks these originals might stick out like a sore thumb - he thinks paint on the bike is good otherwise . What are you guys thoughts on this?
Thanks and sorry for dropping off the face…
 
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