Just to be sure we're on the same page, where the blue arrow is. That's the threaded shaft through the stem and attached to the bakelite knob
-
Don't overlook our Welcome Package, it contains many links to important and helpful information about functions at VHT like posting pictures and sending PMs (private messages), as well as finding the parts you need.
AD
Black Friday - a red 1965 CB160
- Thread starter Alan F.
- Start date
Yes that's my understanding.
The bottom of the knob is less than a millimeter from the steering top nut, and from the length of the threads sticking out the bottom 'Ol Bob had it as tight as it'd go.
The bottom of the knob is less than a millimeter from the steering top nut, and from the length of the threads sticking out the bottom 'Ol Bob had it as tight as it'd go.
Boomer343
Veteran Member
You may have to grind a couple of flats on the rod and use some vise grips to turn the rod carefully. Edited ... the rod is all that you can twist as the spring is locked into threaded part which in turn is locked into the steering stem. You could drill a small hole through the threaded piece to get some penetrating fluid to the threads. There is a fair bit of meat around the threads.
This is what mine looks like off the CB350
This is what mine looks like off the CB350
Honestly I'm thinking of threading a 35 watt soldering iron onto the tip of the threaded rod (even if it's a poor fit) and monitoring temperature with an infrared temp gun.
It most likely won't be too much heat, but maybe it'll get some results.
Thoughts?
It most likely won't be too much heat, but maybe it'll get some results.
Thoughts?
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Looky there!! Wrench flats!
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Pull little cotter pin. Wire brush built up rust from male threads on rod tip. penetrating oil on those threads AND the threads going into the top of the nuts (between the fingers of the star/spring washer). Looks like everything disassembles from the bottom.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Gentle tapping with a small drift on the "nut" that the fingers are attached to, and even the fingers themselves, can promote penetration of lube as well or better than heat. Or in addition to heat.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I'd see if the fingers could be bent enough to get a thin locknut wrench on those flats on the nut (see Boomer's pic). I've got a bunch of those wrenches in my old bicycle tool box. Then just your hand on the bakelite knob and the wrench should do it. Maybe even needle nose vise-grips.
Quite a few of these parts are the same between my 160 & your 350, others are only shared between 350 & 450 but all are represented in this drawing.
I'm not in favor of bending any of the star points down to get a wrench in there, it's probably spring steel and I'd be turning against a hand on the knob anyway.
And with the cross-bore for the lock pin I might have to do a lot of grinding to get any purchase on the threaded shaft, and might use up all of the threads in that process, destroying the rod.
I wonder if putting a hacksaw cut in a hexnut would allow me to thread it on, and lock a pair of vise grips on it creating good tension that would allow me to break the threaded rod free by turning the vise grips along with the damper knob?
I really want to keep these parts in good useable shape, I know that they're probably not needed but the more I can reuse the better, in line with the spirit of this build.
I'm not in favor of bending any of the star points down to get a wrench in there, it's probably spring steel and I'd be turning against a hand on the knob anyway.
And with the cross-bore for the lock pin I might have to do a lot of grinding to get any purchase on the threaded shaft, and might use up all of the threads in that process, destroying the rod.
I wonder if putting a hacksaw cut in a hexnut would allow me to thread it on, and lock a pair of vise grips on it creating good tension that would allow me to break the threaded rod free by turning the vise grips along with the damper knob?
I really want to keep these parts in good useable shape, I know that they're probably not needed but the more I can reuse the better, in line with the spirit of this build.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Agree. don't destroy anything. Looks like you have turn the star nut against the knob. Gentle vise grips between the fingers end on?
I did try a pair if needlenose vise grips between arms of that star-spring to see if I could leverage it to turn with a long screwdriver, it didn't turn but I scarred the star a little. Frownie face.
Time for heat. I wonder if a split nut would clamp tight enough to help turn it?
Seems like I need to invest in a small torch, all I've got are the type you screw onto the propane cylinder.
Time for heat. I wonder if a split nut would clamp tight enough to help turn it?
Seems like I need to invest in a small torch, all I've got are the type you screw onto the propane cylinder.
IF you'll observe the pic in reply #303, you can see that the star shaped SPRING will NOT turn independently of the flat sided "nut" which is captured in the bottom of the steering stem itself... The threaded shaft must be turned to separate these parts.....IF you heat them be wary of overheating which will destroy the spring temper of the "star", and perhaps burn the friction discs.....
Once the cotter is removed, repeated slight pressure in alternating directions (tight and loose) from the top until it breaks or breaks free have proven most successful for me in this task.....
Thank you Steve I completely agree and have been doing just so.
I am wondering (having never had one of these dampers apart) if there is any chance of the damper rod freezing to any other parts other than the threads in that 'flat-sided nut'? It doesn't seem so. While flexing the damper knob in both directions I can feel the shaft twisting and it feels like the binding point is at the bottom of the shaft, but again new ground for me. Thanks for confirming, I do appreciate your input.
I've been using Seafoam Deep Creep, spraying on the threads protruding from this nut, and also I can get the spray straw between star spring arms and seemingly above the nut to spray in there too. I've also sprayed directly beneath the damper knob onto the exposed area of the rod in hopes that the Deep Creep will flow down the rod to work it's wonder from above the nut. I've been back to try about every 3 or 4 days and sprayed a little more each visit before leaving. Temps at storage are still probably at least in the 50's so not really cold by any means. I'll keep to this strategy and won't use heat.
I am wondering (having never had one of these dampers apart) if there is any chance of the damper rod freezing to any other parts other than the threads in that 'flat-sided nut'? It doesn't seem so. While flexing the damper knob in both directions I can feel the shaft twisting and it feels like the binding point is at the bottom of the shaft, but again new ground for me. Thanks for confirming, I do appreciate your input.
I've been using Seafoam Deep Creep, spraying on the threads protruding from this nut, and also I can get the spray straw between star spring arms and seemingly above the nut to spray in there too. I've also sprayed directly beneath the damper knob onto the exposed area of the rod in hopes that the Deep Creep will flow down the rod to work it's wonder from above the nut. I've been back to try about every 3 or 4 days and sprayed a little more each visit before leaving. Temps at storage are still probably at least in the 50's so not really cold by any means. I'll keep to this strategy and won't use heat.
I know it would be difficult, but I'd be tempted to try to immerse the whole steering head in the Evaporust to try to remove as much scale as possible before attempting anything too dramatic.
IF the bike is light enough (engine and most heavy parts removed) you could flip it onto the handlebars (like a bicycle for a flat tire) and place a "solvent soaked" rag on the threads......
Boomer343
Veteran Member
As you can see the threaded piece is buried into the steering stem so getting access to the top of it is a challenge.
If all else fails I would suggest grinding off the threads then carefully drilling out the rod. An extension piece could be then welded on to the rod and if the female threads were damaged a heli coil put in.
Edit to add ..... there is no other way to remove this other than by removing the rod, nothing ... even if you were destroying it.
I think the Seafoam Deep Creep will do the job, I just need to allow it enough time. It came very highly recommend by more than a few people I've spoken with. I'll try to check on it tonight, work is picking up.
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
Heat it up as much as you dare, then apply a good penetrating oil as it cools. I like to use a heat gun, set on high.
I wasn't able to get out there today, it was a rare long day at the day job. But my order from 4into1 arrived with those grooved rear brake shoes, Vesrah exhaust gaskets and chromed steel cable adjusters. Sorry I don't have a pic yet.
wentwest
Veteran Member
I think you are correct. Anything else will break something and these parts are EXPENSIVE if you can find them. The nut itself is nothing, just a fairly routine nut, but everything else is very specific. A wire brush should help and maybe you can try (carefully) a die on the little bit of thread that sticks out past the nut, just to clear the threads a bit.
On the 450 the bakelite knob broke off the rod, and that seems like it would be true most times. The rod itself is stronger than the bakelite. I used a hardware store plastic knob and double nuts to secure it in place.
Right on Bob, I thought about cutting the rust with a die to, but all I've got are Harbor Freight. I could make a thread chasing nut by cutting a slot in a hardened nut, but I haven't got any of them handy either. More spray and more time I think. It took it 30 years to freeze up, if it takes a few weeks to break it loose that's ok.
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
A lot of old timers swear by the use of paraffin(candle wax) to free rusty bolts on exhaust manifolds and such. You heat the nut until it's just about to turn red, then hold the candle against it so it melts into the threads. After it cools you just unscrew the nut.
Paul F
Veteran Member
if for some unforeseen reason the knob does fracture, let me know and I'll mill you out an exact replica from billet aluminum, we'll upgrade that system to larger diameter threads as well. not a huge deal.
Thanks Mike, I'd never heard of that one but I'll file it away for later. This would probably be a good addition to a set of left hand drill bits.
Thanks Paul I agree but I'm going to take it slow and careful, it'll come free intact eventually. I think the original parts will have more value as well.
Tapered roller steering bearing kit from AllBalls arrived this morning:
Thanks Paul I agree but I'm going to take it slow and careful, it'll come free intact eventually. I think the original parts will have more value as well.
Tapered roller steering bearing kit from AllBalls arrived this morning:
And I took the handlebars out of the Evaporust where they sat a few days with paper towels loosely wrapped around them to keep all of the important areas damp. They came out ok and I gave them a coat of CorrosionX inside and out. The drippings were caught on another paper towel, half of which I stuffed into the top of the head pipes to spread it's goodness inside some more.
I repositioned the front fender and loosely wrapped and draped the same bunch of damp paper towels around and over it again. Once finished I think I'll hit the fender with rubbing compound, we'll see. Not much to get pics of today.
I repositioned the front fender and loosely wrapped and draped the same bunch of damp paper towels around and over it again. Once finished I think I'll hit the fender with rubbing compound, we'll see. Not much to get pics of today.
1969 CL350
Veteran Member
I don’t know if anyone has suggested scrubbing rusty chrome parts with a wad of aluminum foil doused in Coca-Cola (followed by a rinsing and light polish with some Simichrome or Autosol metal polish), but it works pretty well and is easy to do. Here are a couple examples from my Honda 350 cleanup about 6 years ago. Of course, it won’t restore missing chrome, but it is much easier than trying to clean larger chrome parts with Evaporust.
Yes I've used that method many times with great results as you've shown, nice pics!
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
The tough part is having to touch up the rust again later. Polishes and waxes aren't all compatible so pick one and buy a couple extra bottles.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Believe it or not percussion can help drive the penetration of the solvent as does the heat. Say a 1/4" flat nose drift pin and a small hammer between the fingers on the surface of the nut. You do not want to deform the nut just send shock waves through it.
Capitol idea! I'll bring my brass drift and hammer next time I'm over there, thank you.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Also, heat the nut with an electric or even an old hair dryer and cool the nut with a spray can of brake cleaner. If you use one of those cheap Harbour Freight mini butane crack pipe torches, be careful. Yes, you do not want to spoil the fingers temper.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Never tried the Coke. Only WD40 Works good. Nice shark fin! :biggrin:
1969 CL350
Veteran Member
Even water works with aluminum foil.
1969 CL350
Veteran Member
Yes, but unlike water and WD40, if you leave the Coke on there for a while after scrubbing and refresh it a time or two, the phosphoric acid will not only dissolve the rust, but will also leave a thin phosphate coating on any bare steel, which inhibits future rust.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Nice brake venting too.
1969 CL350
Veteran Member
That was a holdover from its cafe racer days back in the late 1970s. Now I wish I hadn’t done it, but it is what it is.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Ok, but I appreciate the good craftsmanship. I bet you get more guff from the postie boys for the shark fin than from the 350 purists.
I've got a TLS drum from a 79 CB400T that I'd probably like to vent someday. I found this once and saved a photo that I can't find... The back of the drum had six slots milled in it, probably only 1/2" long each but they were milled at a ~45? degree angle to the axle centerline. This would pull air through the brake drum with every revolution. And it would probably pull in some rain as well, but I'm sure some silicone plugs could be made to pop in when it rains.
Something like this:
Something like this:
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I don't ride hard enough to need it. I just like the looks. I must say though, if the damn thing started whistling down the road, I'd be PO'd.
I hear you on that. If I'm riding that hard it's on back roads in the middle of nowhere.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Yep rider fade long before brake fade
Horn arrived this morning. Seller says it doesn't work, we'll see about that!
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
They come apart easily enough, electrical contacts inside probably need cleaned.
There doesn't seem to be an (edit: external) adjustment screw like you'd see on a younger horn, that's probably why you see so few of these around, people just toss them and bolt on new ones.
But good news, the coil measures good and isn't shorted to the housing. I'll have to find a screwdriver and pop that domed cover off & have a look.
But good news, the coil measures good and isn't shorted to the housing. I'll have to find a screwdriver and pop that domed cover off & have a look.
Excellent news, glad it all came apart without doing damage.
Thanks, I'm pretty stoked.
Oh my seat cover arrived from Thailand tonight too!
Oh my seat cover arrived from Thailand tonight too!
I've been playing with that horn with no conclusive results. I think I'll have a look at the wiring diagram before I give up. Otherwise everything seems mechanically fine with it.
Edit: I think it's just out of adjustment, after monkeying with it I can get it to cluck with a 9v battery now at least.
Edit: I think it's just out of adjustment, after monkeying with it I can get it to cluck with a 9v battery now at least.