ballbearian
Veteran Member
Lots of my brake pedals and handlebars have small vice-jaw marks, but I'd rather have straight than perfect shine, cuz I'm cheap too.
The bench is nice but way too clean.
The bench is nice but way too clean.
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74 360G.....My first project bike
- Thread starter Grumpybugger
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stl360+450
Veteran Member
Did you try to adjust the nut on the end of the brake rod to compensate? If you turn that nut counter clockwise as viewed from behind the bike, it should increase free play. Hopefully it's not out of room for adjustment.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
I did. Granted the shoes are new, so that might make a difference, but to get the pedal to clear the pipe using the stopper bolt, and having the proper amount of pedal travel, the adjusting nut on the end of the rod is only on about half way....... meaning the rod is only half way thru the nut......before disassembly the rod was thru that nut a good amount. If that's not a problem, then I could make that work......maybe lock time the threads?
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
I'm not opposed to scratching it either, but this coulda got ugly. It dimpled the sleeve enough I couldn't get the pivot shaft thru. I had to do some cleanup with a reamer on the drill to make things work. My fear, and the reason I'm asking, I don't want to do any irrepaiable damage. I found a couple pedals on fleabay, but they're probably in as bad or worse shape than what I've got.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Bummer. The minimum free play is supposed to be 20 mm. If you go to that minimum with the smallest possible clearance on the muffler, where will that get you on the adjuster nut? I would want the rod to be at least flush with the end of the nut.
There is a brake pedal available from CMS in the Netherlands and it appears to be on sale (no joke). $60 plus shipping. Pricy, but would go well with your very clean build.
PEDAL,BRAKE for CB360G 1974 USA - order at CMSNL
✓Good to order: PEDAL,BRAKE ✓Manufacturercode: 46500-369-000 ✓Quality part
www.cmsnl.com
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Got it....Thank you!Bummer. The minimum free play is supposed to be 20 mm. If you go to that minimum with the smallest possible clearance on the muffler, where will that get you on the adjuster nut? I would want the rod to be at least flush with the end of the nut.
There is a brake pedal available from CMS in the Netherlands and it appears to be on sale (no joke). $60 plus shipping. Pricy, but would go well with your very clean build.
PEDAL,BRAKE for CB360G 1974 USA - order at CMSNL
✓Good to order: PEDAL,BRAKE ✓Manufacturercode: 46500-369-000 ✓Quality part
crazypj
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I know I have a couple I won't be using but for the life of me can't remember where they are. (last time I saw them was around 2010, they are in a storage tote in one of the sheds or maybe 'buried' in the garage?)
If I find one you can have it for the cost of shipping.
As for handlebars, straightening them is always just a temporary measure.
Even though fitting wiring back inside can be a PITA it's really the best thing to do.
There are probably hundreds of 'good bars' around so should be easy to get hold of
If I find one you can have it for the cost of shipping.
As for handlebars, straightening them is always just a temporary measure.
Even though fitting wiring back inside can be a PITA it's really the best thing to do.
There are probably hundreds of 'good bars' around so should be easy to get hold of
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Thank you PJ. That's incredibly generous of you.
I got the new pedal from CMSNL and installed over the weekend.
The new pedal wasn't much different than the original. Looking deeper, I discovered the problem wasn't the pedal, but the tab holding the adjusting bolt has been bent when the bike was dropped.
After I straightened that tab, I noticed I could re-clock the drum actuater lever on the splines a bit to give me more adjustment on the rod. I now have things where I want them. I think lol.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
That looks good, Darryl. Too bad you didn't really need the CMSNL brake pedal — hopefully it's a little bit shiner than the old one.
I remember wondering how in the world one can tell a brake pedal arm has the correct shape while working on my CB350 project. The one that came with the bike was so banged up that I just assumed it would have the wrong shape and got another one on eBay. My other clue was that the lower sections of the frame were also bent and damaged.
I remember wondering how in the world one can tell a brake pedal arm has the correct shape while working on my CB350 project. The one that came with the bike was so banged up that I just assumed it would have the wrong shape and got another one on eBay. My other clue was that the lower sections of the frame were also bent and damaged.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Thanks. The flat knurled part of the pedal....where you put your foot.....was bent up as well. That's what lead me to believe the whole arm was bent. Plus the dent in the side cover. Id spent a lot of time looking things over in that area and for some reason, it finally caught my eye. Many forehead slaps later,......
While this is acceptable under proper circumstances, unless you know the condition of the rear brake shoes it isn't always advisable to reset the arm on the splines in case the shoes are excessively worn. The reason is something that could end badly if the shoes are really worn out. The factory typically puts an alignment dot on the arm and on the end of the actuator shaft, and those dots are intended to be aligned when the arm is reinstalled on the splined shaft. This shaft picture is not one for a 360, but they're all basically designed the same.
Note the flat sides where the shoes sit at the inner (left in the picture) end of the shaft, and the cam action that opens the shoes when you push the pedal and the arm on the splines rotates the shaft a bit. If you reset the arm on the splines when old, worn shoes are in use, the flat sides of the cam can sometimes rotate until they are perpendicular to the flats on the ends of the brake shoes - and the rear wheel locks, with no control to release the shoes. This is why Honda put alignment dots on the arms and shafts. Just thought it should be explained in case you weren't aware.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
The shoes are new, and I remembered the alignment dots from when I replaced them. I only moved the arm forward one tooth or two on the spline. Here's a pic.....if you think I need to move it back, let me know.@EzPete......there were other problems to begin with. But I did make sure the shoes matched the drum, and didn't need to radius (or re-arc) the shoes. Pedal is now at 7/8" free play.
crazypj
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Because of the way the shoe spindle is made, you have a very limited chance of 'over adjusting' because there are no splines machined so operating arm can't be moved too far.(although I have seen them opened up and forced on in wrong position 
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)
Yes, the later versions had the "solid" area as seen in his picture. I was concerned about they way the earlier versions were when there was no solid area to limit the amount of splines you could move to, and I've seen people unaware of the excessive wear on the shoes and move as much as 2 to 3 splines backwards to get more pedal, which risks turning the shaft too far.Because of the way the shoe spindle is made, you have a very limited chance of 'over adjusting' because there are no splines machined so operating arm can't be moved too far.(although I have seen them opened up and forced on in wrong position
crazypj
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Yep, you've probably seen them go completely over center as well then lock wheel up tearing brake rod from pedal wrapping it around wheel spindle.
Ahhh, sometimes, I really don't miss 'the good old days'
Ahhh, sometimes, I really don't miss 'the good old days'
And in one case the lock-up was so violent it shattered the backing plate. But that was the one and only time it happened to me when I was 15 and stupid, and it was not on a Honda rear wheel/brake either (in fact, most of that bike wasn't Honda except the tired C200 engine)Yep, you've probably seen them go completely over center as well then lock wheel up tearing brake rod from pedal wrapping it around wheel spindle.
Ahhh, sometimes, I really don't miss 'the good old days'
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Another bit of an update. After noodling on it for a while, I decided to send my carbs down to Mike Nixon. After investing the money on the top end, I figured I'd be a fool not to make sure they were right.
New air filters on the way, although I am having trouble finding the d-shaped boots. Reasonably priced, that is. Also the stock bolt that holds the filters together is missing. I assume a piece of all-thread cut to proper length will work? It's what I was going to try anyway.....
Heres a few pics......see anything needs rerouted or something doesn't look right, I'd appreciate the help
New air filters on the way, although I am having trouble finding the d-shaped boots. Reasonably priced, that is. Also the stock bolt that holds the filters together is missing. I assume a piece of all-thread cut to proper length will work? It's what I was going to try anyway.....
Heres a few pics......see anything needs rerouted or something doesn't look right, I'd appreciate the help
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
Darryl,I'll suggest you replace the long special air filter bolt w/ the two hold-down nuts w/ a used original,because they fit and work very well compared to a length of all-thread,imo.
fxray
Veteran Member
You don't need a battery in the bike to set your static timing. In fact, you are better off never involving your bike's battery to do that task. If you use a battery powered continuity tester, like this for example:
There is an AA battery and a small 1.5V bulb inside the handle. The wire lead has an alligator clip to attach it to the points connection, or even to the spring-bar of the points. The probe of the tool then goes to any good ground spot on the engine. Stuff it into a small bolt hole or anywhere it will stay temporarily. If the points are closed, the light inside the handle will be on. When the points break open as you rotate the crankshaft, the tester circuit will lose continuity and the bulb will shut off. Set your points by watching for the test light to shut off just as the timing marks align.
Doing it this way, there is 0% chance of leaving the ignition turned on too long and melting the potting material in your spark coils. That is true because you are testing with the ignition turned off, or even with no battery in the bike at all.
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
Yes,it'll make your coils smileYou don't need a battery in the bike to set your static timing. In fact, you are better off never involving your bike's battery to do that task. If you use a battery powered continuity tester, like this for example:
There is an AA battery and a small 1.5V bulb inside the handle. The wire lead has an alligator clip to attach it to the points connection, or even to the spring-bar of the points. The probe of the tool then goes to any good ground spot on the engine. Stuff it into a small bolt hole or anywhere it will stay temporarily. If the points are closed, the light inside the handle will be on. When the points break open as you rotate the crankshaft, the tester circuit will lose continuity and the bulb will shut off. Set your points by watching for the test light to shut off just as the timing marks align.
Doing it this way, there is 0% chance of leaving the ignition turned on too long and melting the potting material in your spark coils. That is true because you are testing with the ignition turned off, or even with no battery in the bike at all.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Just having a hard time wrapping my head around a $35 bolt.....and $35 D-shaped boots.
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
Just having a hard time wrapping my head around a $35 bolt.....and $35 D-shaped boots.
They want $35 ?
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
You don't need a battery in the bike to set your static timing. In fact, you are better off never involving your bike's battery to do that task. If you use a battery powered continuity tester, like this for example:
There is an AA battery and a small 1.5V bulb inside the handle. The wire lead has an alligator clip to attach it to the points connection, or even to the spring-bar of the points. The probe of the tool then goes to any good ground spot on the engine. Stuff it into a small bolt hole or anywhere it will stay temporarily. If the points are closed, the light inside the handle will be on. When the points break open as you rotate the crankshaft, the tester circuit will lose continuity and the bulb will shut off. Set your points by watching for the test light to shut off just as the timing marks align.
Doing it this way, there is 0% chance of leaving the ignition turned on too long and melting the potting material in your spark coils. That is true because you are testing with the ignition turned off, or even with no battery in the bike at all.
Thank you......when I first saw that, I thought..oh yeah..use my test light. Until I read your post. Insert forehead slap here......I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to working on things, but I don't remember seeing one like that. Anyway it was $9 ........
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
I’ve made two previous attempts at cleaning the gas tank, using vinegar. It worked pretty well but the flash rust managed to appear no matter what I tried. Today I tried using Deox-c, but I didn’t get the tank half full when I noticed water dripping around the petcock bung. Dumped the solution back in the bucket and went looking for the problem. And found it.
I mixed up some JB Weld and covered the holes in hopes I can finish cleaning the tank and better assess the depth of the corrosion, but I’m not optimistic. I took a look with my little scope, and it looks pretty bad inside
Kinda hard to see, but that’s the petcock bung and the end of the tank. My hope was there would be enough material to attempt a patch of some kind once I’m able to clean it up.
I’ve been looking for tanks, but they all look worse than the one I’ve got.
Im open to suggestions
I mixed up some JB Weld and covered the holes in hopes I can finish cleaning the tank and better assess the depth of the corrosion, but I’m not optimistic. I took a look with my little scope, and it looks pretty bad inside
Kinda hard to see, but that’s the petcock bung and the end of the tank. My hope was there would be enough material to attempt a patch of some kind once I’m able to clean it up.
I’ve been looking for tanks, but they all look worse than the one I’ve got.
Im open to suggestions
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
I brought my Honda fuel tank to 'gas tank renu' they have different locations in different parts of the country;they are originally based in Michigan,head office.
I went to Moyers Radiator/gastankrenu in Greensburg,PA. when I lived in that area for 3.5 yrs.
They fix your tank Completely,remove all the interior rust,patch it with fresh steel,etc. until it's all solid.
When they're done they close it back up(they open it at the bottom to do the inside work)and then coat it with a patented coating and guarantee it for the lifetime of the bike.
The restoration job cost about as much as an NOS fuel tank;your tank my need to be replaced as that's very thin now.
I had mine done in 2015' No More Problems:my little bike is a 'Keeper'.
I went to Moyers Radiator/gastankrenu in Greensburg,PA. when I lived in that area for 3.5 yrs.
They fix your tank Completely,remove all the interior rust,patch it with fresh steel,etc. until it's all solid.
When they're done they close it back up(they open it at the bottom to do the inside work)and then coat it with a patented coating and guarantee it for the lifetime of the bike.
The restoration job cost about as much as an NOS fuel tank;your tank my need to be replaced as that's very thin now.
I had mine done in 2015' No More Problems:my little bike is a 'Keeper'.
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So I would patch the tank with the JB Weld and build a decent strip along there where those small holes are present. As you noted it is likely thin along that whole area. So building a base over the entire bottom of the flat area on both sides isn’t out of the question. I use TechSteel which may not be available to you in the US. Same type of material as JB Weld but I feel it is superior in a temperature rating and quicker set up. Neither of those criteria are an issue in your case, as long as the JB weld is chemical resistant.
Then use the Detox C my preferred rust remover and fill the tank and leave it for a few days empty it into a container for reuse if needed. Then flush the tank with hot water and it shouldn’t flash rust and see where your at then.
I think your likely going to need to line it, yet you want to see what it looks like after the Detox treatment. You may get lucky with a rust removal only process. Good you have the camera to see into the area afterwards to determine if it is clean enough or if a liner is required.
With the Detox C use hot water when you mix the initial batch to assist with the chemical reaction. It will cool down over time, yet warm water is the way to go initially
Then use the Detox C my preferred rust remover and fill the tank and leave it for a few days empty it into a container for reuse if needed. Then flush the tank with hot water and it shouldn’t flash rust and see where your at then.
I think your likely going to need to line it, yet you want to see what it looks like after the Detox treatment. You may get lucky with a rust removal only process. Good you have the camera to see into the area afterwards to determine if it is clean enough or if a liner is required.
With the Detox C use hot water when you mix the initial batch to assist with the chemical reaction. It will cool down over time, yet warm water is the way to go initially
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Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Thank you. You’ve confirmed what I was thinking. New territory for me.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
A small leak appeared on one of my tanks after I removed an old red kote lining — it was right around the welds on the crossover spigots and I used JB Tank Weld to shore things up. It's been holding well.
I defer to Flyin900's excellent advice, but just wanted to point out that there is a specific JB weld product for gas tanks. I'm not entirely certain if it differs in any substantial way from the usual stuff.
I defer to Flyin900's excellent advice, but just wanted to point out that there is a specific JB weld product for gas tanks. I'm not entirely certain if it differs in any substantial way from the usual stuff.
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I can't speak to JB Weld products, yet I will assume they are close to the chemical mix of the Tech Steel product I use. It is totally impervious to gasoline and really any other chemicals such as brake fluid etc that I have used it on in repairs.
I actually reformed fins on my old CL175 barrels after they had a fall from a perch in my garage and broke quite a few away. It held up fine, yet it would never be as strong as an aluminum fin from the factory.
In regards to your question about gas tank sealers there are putty style ones that are made specifically for gas tanks and gasoline. How different it is to the JB Weld or Tech Steel products I am not sure there.
Here are some repairs I have done with the Tech Steel product which is likely the same as JB Weld in most properties.
CL175 Barrel repairs on various sides.
CL77 Lower case fin repairs
Tech Steel Product
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Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Looks about the same. I had some JB Weld marine use that Ive used on my riding mower gas tank and its been in contact with gas for a couple years now and no leaks, so thats what I used for now. Got the tank soaking with no leak so far…..fingers crossed
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Helluva improvement, but going to work at it some more. 24 hour soak with Deox-c. 
Deox C and JB Weld to the rescue. Kind of a Batman and Robin combo.
Looking really good internally and the liner is likely not needed. Just be aware that the ethanol in gas today is very hygroscopic. I would keep the gas tank more on the full than partially full when left in storage or for longer layups.
Don't forget that underside gas cap section too. The vent in the cap can get plugged from rust or gunk and cause running issues, if air can't get into the tank for pressure equalization. Just flip the tank upside down with the cap submerged over a container of the Deox C for good results.
Looking really good internally and the liner is likely not needed. Just be aware that the ethanol in gas today is very hygroscopic. I would keep the gas tank more on the full than partially full when left in storage or for longer layups.
Don't forget that underside gas cap section too. The vent in the cap can get plugged from rust or gunk and cause running issues, if air can't get into the tank for pressure equalization. Just flip the tank upside down with the cap submerged over a container of the Deox C for good results.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
GotchaDeox C and JB Weld to the rescue. Kind of a Batman and Robin combo.
Looking really good internally and the liner is likely not needed. Just be aware that the ethanol in gas today is very hygroscopic. I would keep the gas tank more on the full than partially full when left in storage or for longer layups.
Don't forget that underside gas cap section too. The vent in the cap can get plugged from rust or gunk and cause running issues, if air can't get into the tank for pressure equalization. Just flip the tank upside down with the cap submerged over a container of the Deox C for good results.
. Great idea flipping the tank upside down. I know that vent is plugged from draining the old deox. I figured a replacement was in order, but I’ll try this first. Thanks a ton.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Having trouble getting proper continuity on the points while trying to set static timing. This caught my eye…. Are these points connected correctly??
They appear to be connected fine and the terminal orientation is good to help avoid contact with the points cover when put back on. Did you lightly sand the contacts and wipe clean? If there is any corrosion or burned areas from arcing (they should show light sparks when running, but not strong sparks or your condensers are likely bad) it will inhibit proper contact.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
This is whats got me wondering….. Its showing continuity when the points are open.
I can only think of a couple reasons for that, either the spring on the left points is touching ground somehow (can't clearly see the side well enough), or the center insulating spacer around the small bolt for the terminal is missing allowing the bolt to touch the frame of the points. Or it could just be those crappy aftermarket points, LOL
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Happens on both sides so Im leaning toward crappy aftermarket points …… I thought they might be oem though No?
I'm not nearly as familiar with the 350 and 360 after decades away from them for the most part, but they do not look like OEM points and it's because they're really hard to find anymore. Where did you buy them? Also, did you try a non-powered test light too? I use a standard test light powered by the ignition system, and you can slip a piece of paper in between the points you're not setting timing on to avoid overheating the coil.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Havent replaced them. Contact surfaces look smooth and clean so I planned to leave them for now. My plan is (was) get it running with stock ignition and upgrade later to EI. When I saw they were stamped Japan on one end and what appeared to me as logo on the other end I (probably mistakenly) assumed they were original
I looked again and now see the logo - they're Daiichi points if I'm not mistaken, and they're well-known to be below average quality.
And all the fiber washers are in place as shown in the picture I posted? You could try testing them off the points plate to be sure they work as they should.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Ok. That helps a ton. I’ll do that. Thanks!
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Everything seems to be as it should……insulating washers in place….continuity breaks as it should when points were removed from plate. Partzilla had Denso points, so they’re on the way. Fingers crossed
Still strange though. Moments like this are when you just have to see it in person, and it's a shame so many of us are nowhere near each other.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Was thinking that earlier…..I’ve been trying to figure it out for some time now. Kept thinking I was doing something wrong, Hopefully it’s a quality issue.
When the points are removed from the plate and the wires, does briefly touching one wire to ground with the key on give a spark on that plug?
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
I’ve yet to install the new battery, hence the powered tester I’ve been using. I was afraid I’d fry coils static timing. I’d read somewhere that’s a possibility. ?
It is, but only if you take 15 to 20 minutes or more and don't use a piece of paper between the contacts of the other set you're not adjusting (as I mentioned above).
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Ok. Next step then.