1966 Honda CL160 commissioned build

Flyin900

Flyin900

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I will be taking on a Honda CL160 Scrambler as a winter project for a member of our local Barrie Huronia CVMG group. I am looking at the bike tomorrow to discuss the needs and expectations for the build. The bike had some work done previously prior to the current owner buying it. So the condition is a roller frame and motor from my understanding, with a possible rebuild on the motor. I will take a few shots of the before project this time when I see the bike.

Moderators do we have an FSM for the CL160 or CB160 in our library that you could link me to either on this post or through a PM? I believe there will be some painting involved too on the main body panels. If we also have a model listing of what colours were available in 1966 for either the CL or CB model that would be helpful. Something beyond silver and black would be a nice change of pace for me.
 
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Fly900 looks like the true 1966 CL160 was black and silver only. The CBs were red , blue , black and white. I thought the CL160D dealer scrambler had Candy blue or Candy orange tanks. There is a Honda parts button that says the CL160 D had silver tanks???
 
Thank you for the colour schemes. I will see if he wants to keep it those colours or what the present colour scheme is when I see the bike tomorrow.

Very interesting that the "D" model has an electric start. I wonder which model he has there. :unsure:

This model was apparently his first bike as a kid way back when. So he searched for the same model and found one a number of years ago. The plan was for him to finish the restoration, yet years have past and it is still as he bought it. He asked me a few months ago and I wanted to finish up the Honda S90 before I committed to the project. Since I have done a couple of 1968 CL175 Sloper models, I thought it could be an interesting project to work on the predecessor model.
 
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The D is a later model though, correct?

I found the original ad for the introduction of the CL on eBay https://ebay.us/m/x3DBjq

Looks like that was the solid silver tank with rubber knee pads versus the chrome side from the CB (obviously exhaust too).
 
EzPete said:
The D is a later model though, correct?

I found the original ad for the introduction of the CL on eBay https://ebay.us/m/x3DBjq

Looks like that was the solid silver tank with rubber knee pads versus the chrome side from the CB (obviously exhaust too).
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Pete, I am not really familiar with the model, which is what interested me when he asked for assistance in completing the project. I know the 1968 CL175 Sloper models well, which seem to share quite a number of similar features.
I will see what model he has in the garage tomorrow and what I am getting into here. :unsure:
 
EzPete said:
The D is a later model though, correct?

I found the original ad for the introduction of the CL on eBay https://ebay.us/m/x3DBjq

Looks like that was the solid silver tank with rubber knee pads versus the chrome side from the CB (obviously exhaust too).
Click to expand...
The D was an added-on "glamour kit" the dealers installed to convert CBs to scramblers.
 
It will be interesting to see pics of the forks , kickstands, frame and motor numbers of this bike.
I think we have the same FSM as mine for CB125-160, copyright 1972. Also, we do have a parts catalogue for CL160, not sure of date.
I do have an old parts list CB125 (akaCB93) -CB160 (akaCB96), issued Nov.1, 1964, but it uses the old parts number system, that I did not know about when I bought it.
The motors and trans were all the same, AFAIK.
True CL160s were later and different from the D kitted CB160 in forks, no electric start, folding footpegs, skid plate and kickstands.
 
ballbearian said:
It will be interesting to see pics of the forks , kickstands, frame and motor numbers of this bike.
I think we have the same FSM as mine for CB125-160, copyright 1972. Also, we do have a parts catalogue for CL160, not sure of date.
I do have an old parts list CB125 (akaCB93) -CB160 (akaCB96), issued Nov.1, 1964, but it uses the old parts number system, that I did not know about when I bought it.
The motors and trans were all the same, AFAIK.
True CL160s were later and different from the D kitted CB160 in forks, no electric start, folding footpegs, skid plate and kickstands.
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Thanks BB as I am new to the CL160, yet there are a number of items that the 1968 CL175 do also share with this model it appears.
 
So I checked out the bike and while it looks decent at first blush there are a lot of key parts missing from the bike. I will need to verify if the motor has any work done as there wasn't a clear answer there. Some of these items maybe hard to find as the bike isn't a popular model these days for reproduction items. The big items missing are the air filters which are shared with the CL175 Sloper model and are as scarce as hens teeth. When found they are quite expensive and there are no outer filter frames for a rebuild with foam.

I should get the bike shortly and since there is no main stand or step system with the bike, I will set up a front wheel chock until those parts are located.

Here it is as it sits presently.

P1100876.JPG

The exhaust is in decent shape with a few small fixes, yet that is a real bonus with the bike.

P1100879.JPG
 
Any frame and motor numbers?

It looks to be a real CL, not a D kit CB. I can tell by the later forks and rear passenger foot peg supports. If that is the unobtainium CB type petcock be very careful with it. I finally found a packing for mine, after measuring and cross referencing. 16955-268-020.
I never found a rear brake cable.
 
PugMug said:
The frame is definitely a CL- I see the welded on exhaust mount and the CL battery strap. Rear fender appears to be a CB (holes for the mudflap). Hopefully he has the skid plate and it's not missing- that's probably the hardest bit to find...
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Good catch, on the mount. It may have a different motor. I don't think any starter motor ones had skid plates, but these are always surprising. The CBs had stamped, not tubular, rear footpeg mounts, so that makes sense too, that it is a real CL frame.
 
As PugMug says it appears to be a real CL. Definitely a CL front fender, and no electric start. The other big item other than skid plate as Pug mentioned is the muffler and pipes . A decent muffler really hard to find but this one appears to be excellent. I have found air cleaners on e bay but you have to be patient!?😬. The foot rest pegs on the true CL is also different than the CB. The CL is all metal with flip up pegs similar to the CL77 foot rest. Again these can be found. I look forward to following this bike.
 
I am a little concerned, as I have done some due diligence today and tonight and it is a little depressing.

I have been doing some investigating of the parts costs and availability, as it is missing a lot of both larger and really smaller key pieces. My best guess is this is going to be really expensive to find and buy correct parts. The headlight alone with the chrome trim and glass is $250 Canadian plus taxes, so close to $300.00. The exhaust is decent, yet no outer collars or the metal split collets for the mounting.
The big killer is each one of these parts both big and small will be from different sellers with costs of $25-50 Canadian shipping on each piece.

I am going to suggest that I try and get it running to evaluate where it is at mechanically. I see it getting into a $1.5-$2K possibly on parts alone. He already has more than that into the bike as it sits presently. I don't think he realized how many bits it really still needs.
 
ballbearian said:
Good catch, on the mount. It may have a different motor. I don't think any starter motor ones had skid plates, but these are always surprising. The CBs had stamped, not tubular, rear footpeg mounts, so that makes sense too, that it is a real CL frame.
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Yeah the stock CL skid plate definitely does not work with the CB starter motor. I have seen an aftermarket front down tube with an integrated skid plate that was made for the CB (it hooked around the CB foot bar.) I had the opportunity to buy it, but I actually have CL pegs on my CL160D so it wouldn’t work.
 
Flyin900 said:
I am a little concerned, as I have done some due diligence today and tonight and it is a little depressing.

I have been doing some investigating of the parts costs and availability, as it is missing a lot of both larger and really smaller key pieces. My best guess is this is going to be really expensive to find and buy correct parts. The headlight alone with the chrome trim and glass is $250 Canadian plus taxes, so close to $300.00. The exhaust is decent, yet no outer collars or the metal split collets for the mounting.
The big killer is each one of these parts both big and small will be from different sellers with costs of $25-50 Canadian shipping on each piece.

I am going to suggest that I try and get it running to evaluate where it is at mechanically. I see it getting into a $1.5-$2K possibly on parts alone. He already has more than that into the bike as it sits presently. I don't think he realized how many bits it really still needs.
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It’s a beautiful bike as it stands- but if the intent is to get it back to showroom original quality it’s definitely going to cost a pretty penny and probably take a very long time…
 
ballbearian said:
Any frame and motor numbers?

It looks to be a real CL, not a D kit CB. I can tell by the later forks and rear passenger foot peg supports. If that is the unobtainium CB type petcock be very careful with it. I finally found a packing for mine, after measuring and cross referencing. 16955-268-020.
I never found a rear brake cable.
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I didn’t think to check those numbers as I was looking at the overall condition and the missing parts.
 
PugMug said:
It’s a beautiful bike as it stands- but if the intent is to get it back to showroom original quality it’s definitely going to cost a pretty penny and probably take a very long time…
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It will be a rider quality refresh. I feel the lack of parts availability is a detriment and there are too many other issues that don’t show up well in the pictures.
To do a show quality build would cost many thousands of dollars with many those parts presently unavailable. As you noted the skid plate is really a long shot.
I have a look out for the skid plate for a CL175K0 that Joe and I built last year, with nothing showing up to date. My past CL175K0 took years for me to find one and that went with the bike when I sold it this year.
 
Great news from the owner of this bike. He checked his storage area and found most of those missing parts came with the bike. Since he bought it close to 5 years ago he forgot what it came with in the extra boxes. I didn't see the air filters in the pictures he sent, yet the other key items are there. He actually has the skid plate too, so that is a miracle for sure!
I spoke to him earlier today before he found this stuff and he was on the fence about proceeding with the project, given the costs of those parts if and when they are found.
 
The bike was delivered this morning and I have been working away on stripping and taking pictures of the bike.

Anyone who has a CB160 or a CL160 that is complete could you please check the following items I have noted below. I am unsure what and where the pieces and parts highlighted are used on the frame.

There are a few areas I am not sure of since the bike was taken apart by someone else and it isn't clear where some of the parts fit on the frame. The rear brake cable and the main brake arm is a head scratcher. How does the rear brake cable attach to the main brake arm with that special round end on the cable? The air filters are not present, yet it is unclear where the one rear mounting spot is on this frame. I can see the air filter front top bolt mount, yet I don't see where the lower mount will attach to the frame.
There is a lot of bodged bolts and a few special items that are not present.

Here is a fiche shot of the step area where there is a special brake cable wire receiver piece #18 that is missing, yet available. I am not clear where this will mount to the frame area. I also included a picture of the rear brake cable with the unique round end too. There is a round post on the main brake lever but the hole is too small in the brake cable to fit over this post.


Step fiche.jpg


P1100898.JPGP1100897.JPG

Here are a few L +R frame shots where the air filter will mount, yet I only see a top mounting point for the front of the filter. There is a rear mounting post on the filter that needs to attach to the frame somewhere.


P1100899.JPGP1100900.JPG

I also have outlined two areas on the frame where I am unsure what these mounts are used for such as the rear brake wire receiver??? The other lower mount is possibly the brake light switch or the cable mount for the rear brake cable to the main brake arm.



mtd brkt.JPG

Brake switch.JPG
 
By the way, here is my hole-y headlight ring. I ended up welding the broken top lamp mount tab on my original. I suppose this rusted out one could be body fillered with jbweld and then painted silver.
nWPyxX7.jpg


SyLMOvS.jpg


Both top and bottom lamp mounts needed refurbish. the side to side adjustment is by a screw with spring. The extra eyelet tab near bottom of pic is only for a ground strap.
 
Tom,

I have all the parts now such as the foot bar and the side stand and the main stand. He looked and found most of the missing pieces. I have the headlight bezel and glass. A bunch of other small items such as the rear brake switch etc. It is just a bit of a mystery where these rear brake parts connect. The air filters too I don't see the rear mounting for the air cleaner bottom bracket on the bike.

There are some missing small items and I cannot figure out the rear brake cable set up. The round end does fit on the rear brake lever yet I don't see where the cable connect to frame points to carry the mounting. If you have a picture of the parts and pieces where the rear section adjuster part mounts to the bike. Where the front round special cable piece mounts to the bike. I can put the round section of the front of the cable on the brake lever round part that I think also secures the brake spring? I don't have the round brake spring part for the rear brake pedal. I do have the round return spring for the rear brake plate and lever though.
 
Tom, Thank you.

I just realized by looking at correct CL160 brake panels the rear panel is from likely a CL175 and doesn't have the correct part to bolt the back of the brake cable to on the panel.
 
No wonder I am questioning the rear brake assy. The #18 front brake cable support is totally gone and the area has been filled with some type of metal plug. It seems to be both flat on the inside and outside of the frame area. I suspect someone filled it in for whatever reason. The rear brake panel is missing the raised connector to accept the adjustment section of the rear of the brake cable.

This one is non stop fun and surprises so far. o_O

I tried a metal punch on the filled in area below.


P1100906.JPG


Wrong rear brake plate. It is designed for a rod style brake lever not the cable type this bike uses.

P1100905.JPG
 
Is it possible that when someone changed the rear brake hub and panel, which now used a rod, that they cut/shortened the rear brake cable receiver (part#18)?
although it is threaded, on my bike it appears it is also welded. the brake receiver is 1-1/16" off the frame on its rear edge.
IMG_0146.jpeg

IMG_0147.jpeg
IMG_0145.jpeg
 
Flyin900 said:
No wonder I am questioning the rear brake assy. The #18 front brake cable support is totally gone and the area has been filled with some type of metal plug. It seems to be both flat on the inside and outside of the frame area. I suspect someone filled it in for whatever reason. The rear brake panel is missing the raised connector to accept the adjustment section of the rear of the brake cable.

This one is non stop fun and surprises so far. o_O

I tried a metal punch on the filled in area below.


View attachment 49722


Wrong rear brake plate. It is designed for a rod style brake lever not the cable type this bike uses.

View attachment 49723
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Given these rear brake cables on cb and cl160s are very hard to obtain….. wonder if a previous owner just switched to a brake rod system and deleted the parts that were original to the original rear cable?
 
If one could grind away the weld around the brake cable receiver, it would be possible to unscrew the stub.
On my frame the weld covered only a little more than half of the circumference.
and a quick look on eBay shows a brake panel thats not too dear.
 
Flyin900 said:
No wonder I am questioning the rear brake assy. The #18 front brake cable support is totally gone and the area has been filled with some type of metal plug. It seems to be both flat on the inside and outside of the frame area. I suspect someone filled it in for whatever reason. The rear brake panel is missing the raised connector to accept the adjustment section of the rear of the brake cable.

This one is non stop fun and surprises so far. o_O

I tried a metal punch on the filled in area below.


View attachment 49722


Wrong rear brake plate. It is designed for a rod style brake lever not the cable type this bike uses.

View attachment 49723
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Someone has sawed off the front cable end anchor. You will need to drill and tap a hole in the center of what's left and fabricate a new brake anchor to thread into the hole.
 
Thanks guys the brake anchor is available as a screw in part for the CL model and CMSNL has one in stock. I found a rear brake panel on EBay last night. It is complete in need of some TLC for a reasonable cost in Canadian money.
I ordered a new wiring harness and a couple of replacement cables from Thailand. The original rear brake cable is in nose bleed territory close to $150+ landed here. No aftermarket option there. I am going to source some grey shrink wrap and reuse the original cable after some clean up. I will put a fresh grey outer sheathing over the cracked and weathered original.
 
Amannl said:
Is it possible that when someone changed the rear brake hub and panel, which now used a rod, that they cut/shortened the rear brake cable receiver (part#18)?
although it is threaded, on my bike it appears it is also welded. the brake receiver is 1-1/16" off the frame on its rear edge.
View attachment 49756

View attachment 49757
View attachment 49758
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Thank you for the pictures.

This bike has been messed with and not in a good way. The rear brake main lever is an original part, so no way to use a rod system. It is clear there was no rear brake possible. Yet the bike came with an old original rear brake cable that I will reuse given the cost of a NOS replacement part. Why the connector on the front was removed and smoothed flat is a mystery. I drilled through the centre area today with a 3mm Cobalt bit. It is solid metal all the way through which bodes well for the part #18 that I ordered from CMSNL tonight along with some other pieces. They had a RS NOS air cleaner that looks correct for $45 US on sale ( part # 17210-216-000) for another model, so I took a chance on it working. The LH side air cleaner though is not available from them, so that will be a continued search for sure.

I am well into the body work with dollying some small dents and filling with some skim coats of Bondo. I should be able to get the parts in primer and maybe paint the parts if the weather holds over the next week or so.

I need to have Paul my machinist friend lathe a metal tube for the main stand, as the correct part is missing and a replacement piece of supplied tubing is too large to fit through the main stand.
 
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P1100899.JPG
Not sure if someone already replied to this, but the green circle is where the bottom tab of the air filters attach on each side. The red circle is where the screw knob that holds on the right side cover goes.
 
PugMug said:
View attachment 49910
Not sure if someone already replied to this, but the green circle is where the bottom tab of the air filters attach on each side. The red circle is where the screw knob that holds on the right side cover goes.
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Thank you, as I didn't receive a reply on those items. Do you have a CL160 or a CB160? My side covers are different than the ones shown in the Honda parts fiche and they both have a lower extended tab, so they align on both sides with the lower tool box cover stud/nut. Likely off another bike although they are metal, so maybe a CB model 160?

Here are my side covers with more pock marks than a pimply faced 12 year old. o_O A lot of skim coating there.

P1100911.JPG
 
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Some further work on the body panels and fenders and I am getting there repairing the dents and skim coating the small areas with some high build primer. I want to get the bodywork and painting done while we have some nice weather. Then I can then take my time and just work on the reassembly later this fall and winter. The motor needs to come apart again based on what I am seeing so far on the so called rebuild.

I did a leak down test on the motor and one side is good with less than 5%. The other side has a very leaky exhaust valve with 35% leak down. I can see the valves were lapped poorly. I can also see the honing marks of a fresh hone job on the cylinders through the spark plug holes.



Body panels and fenders.

P1100909.JPG
P1100910.JPG


Bike in stripped down mode. I will be pulling the motor and the wheels and front end to repaint the frame as it is a disaster of a paint job. It looks decent in the pictures, yet it is really poorly done. Once all the other shiny bits are finished, that is where the other sketchy parts really stick out as a mismatch.

P1100907.JPG
 
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Looking for ideas here for the missing rear brake wire guide tab. I have ordered a replacement tab that is designed to be threaded into the spot shown which is fine. I can tap the area to the correct size once I receive the part and know what size and TP is required.
The issue is this section isn't flat it angles inward 10-15 degrees at the bottom. So the new piece will also be angled once threaded into the new hole. I am not a welder, so can this be built up with a weld and then ground flat and still drilled and tapped? Any other thoughts as to what else can be used to fix the angle on this part of the frame?

P1100908.JPG
 
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The D model was a CB converted to look similar to a CL because the CL was selling better than the CB. They did it to get rid of surplus CB models. Here are a few factory photos of the CL160, the 160D model, and the similar-looking 1968 CL175. You will notice that the 160D retained the CB front forks and fender.

IMG_1840.jpeg
IMG_1446.jpeg
IMG_1448.jpeg
 
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Flyin900 said:
Thank you, as I didn't receive a reply on those items. Do you have a CL160 or a CB160? My side covers are different than the ones shown in the Honda parts fiche and they both have a lower extended tab, so they align on both sides with the lower tool box cover stud/nut. Likely off another bike although they are metal, so maybe a CB model 160?
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Yup your right cover is for the CB160. The left cover is the same for the CL and CB, but the right one is unique on the CL with the knob that attaches to the tool box.

I have a CB160 that received a partial CL conversion by the previous owner.
 
D kits were also supplied to dealers to convert unsold CB stock. There may well be differences between factory D bikes and dealer modified D kit bikes.
 
So the serial numbers are a bit of a mystery on the engine stamp as it is mixed up and hopefully legit.

Engine: 4880L160E102

Frame: CL1601025050

So the engine was stamped by someone who had too much Saki for lunch me thinks. :unsure:
 
Flyin900 said:
So the serial numbers are a bit of a mystery on the engine stamp as it is mixed up and hopefully legit.

Engine: 4880L160E102

Frame: CL1601025050

So the engine was stamped by someone who had too much Saki for lunch me thinks. :unsure:
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That’s an oddity. I wonder what the mechanism at the factory for that was
 
EzPete said:
That’s an oddity. I wonder what the mechanism at the factory for that was
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Saki and more Saki. o_O

I have seen a lot of more later vintage bikes into the 70's and up, yet that is a first. It kind of matches the bike though... bits of this and bits of that! I really feel for the owner, as the more I take it apart the more little pieces are missing. The front brake stay has no spacer or the bolt lock tabs, just some hinky bolts of various sizes used (non Honda) that were laying around.
I fortunately found all of the missing pieces at CMSNL. This has been a awareness wake up! I realize how important it is when buying these 60's bikes that they need to be complete and unmolested. If not then walk away from the wallet vacuum effect.
 
Flyin900 said:
Saki and more Saki. o_O

I have seen a lot of more later vintage bikes into the 70's and up, yet that is a first. It kind of matches the bike though... bits of this and bits of that! I really feel for the owner, as the more I take it apart the more little pieces are missing. The front brake stay has no spacer or the bolt lock tabs, just some hinky bolts of various sizes used (non Honda) that were laying around.
I fortunately found all of the missing pieces at CMSNL. This has been an awareness wake up! I realize how important it is when buying these 60's bikes that they need to be complete and unmolested. If not then walk away from the wallet vacuum effect.
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That 60’s surcharge is very real. I haven’t been able to dig too deep on this one yet, but it’s surprisingly complete. So far just a lot of rubber bits and a front fender, but my EBay cart is getting warm.
 
EzPete said:
That 60’s surcharge is very real. I haven’t been able to dig too deep on this one yet, but it’s surprisingly complete. So far just a lot of rubber bits and a front fender, but my EBay cart is getting warm.
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Pete,

From what I can see on your finds there I would say you scored a couple of nice bikes. Given your expertise on doing the work on your other builds I am sure these will be fine examples when done.
Are the lower and upper engine cases on your bikes painted too. I see your L+R side main side covers on the engine are painted, less the stator and oil filter rotor covers. Someone did a poor polish job on both of these covers and the right side has a decent ding, which I can fill and then paint them both correctly.
 
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Flyin900 said:
Pete,

From what I can see on your finds there I would say you scored a couple of nice bikes. Given your expertise on doing the work on your other builds I am sure these will be fine examples when done.

I do have a question on the engine cover paint on your bikes. Since this one has so many incorrect parts and pieces. I suspect the attempt to polish the two engine covers is incorrect. My CL175 had grey painted side engine covers. The right side engine cover on this one also has a decent dent. So I can fill that with Tech Steel and make it pretty again with a coat of paint. The stator round cover has seen better days though, with a few good dings right through the case in one spot.
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The side covers I have are chromed, which I found odd. After digging around the original sales brochures, everything I can find has the fenders and side covers as painted silver. I'm wondering if it was a common dealer add-on or a common aftermarket item.

I do have a cracked upper case on one, I'll keep an eye out for a stator cover in that search - that stuff is getting pretty rare in decent shape.
 
Flyin900 said:
Saki and more Saki. o_O

I have seen a lot of more later vintage bikes into the 70's and up, yet that is a first. It kind of matches the bike though... bits of this and bits of that! I really feel for the owner, as the more I take it apart the more little pieces are missing. The front brake stay has no spacer or the bolt lock tabs, just some hinky bolts of various sizes used (non Honda) that were laying around.
I fortunately found all of the missing pieces at CMSNL. This has been a awareness wake up! I realize how important it is when buying these 60's bikes that they need to be complete and unmolested. If not then walk away from the wallet vacuum effect.
Click to expand...
You may want to check this thread I started re: that front brake arm spacer. From what I've gathered there are two different spacers- which one you need will depend on the brake arm you have.

CB/CL160 - Identify this Part (Brake Stop Arm Piece Or??)

I bought a batch of CB/CL160 nuts and bolts on eBay last year, and it had this bit (red circle). I thought it was the brake stop arm "piece" - number 22 on the diagram: But the piece on the left in the photo above is the stop arm piece that I have on my forks 65 CB160 (steel lowers). The...
vintagehondatwins.com vintagehondatwins.com
 
I just read your post and that is another reality check. This bike had no spacer and random bolts installed into the forks.
I have the stop arm with the washer attached and I don’t know which design of fork lowers until I check further. The parts book lists 4 identical bolts to attach the fender and brake arm. Which doesn’t make sense to me on that one fork hole with the brake arm. The bolts are listed as #23 on the fiche and are 8X10 mm in length. The fork hole for the stop arm has a recessed unthreaded initial section where I believe the nub of the spacer will fit into the fork.
Could you please link your build thread to this one so I have some reference to your work and the bike

I did order the 4 pcs of 8X10 fender bolts from CMSNL tonight. So another $90 Canadian for a few bits of the brake arm parts that were missing.
 
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Looks like yours is the latest forks, alloy lowers, not steel.

The bottom line is, that the bolt will not bottom out and deform the bore of the lower leg. Measuring the depth of the hole with whatever special shouldered spacer washers in place before torquing the bolt should work to prevent that.
 
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